Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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3. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality her plans to establish an independent inquiry into the alleged accessing of certain phone records by An Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission. [26602/24]

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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The question relates to GSOC secretly and unlawfully accessing journalists' mobile phone records.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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As the Deputy is aware, the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission is an independent statutory body established in 2007 under the Garda Síochána Act 2005. Its primary role is to provide independent investigation of complaints against members of An Garda Síochána, as required, and to undertake other investigations relating to the conduct of Garda members. This is vitally important work to uphold public confidence in An Garda Síochána and, rightly, GSOC is completely independent in the exercise of its functions. The Oireachtas legislated to ensure this independence, and to protect the organisation from any political interference in the investigations it must conduct without fear or favour but, of course, the ombudsman must always operate in accordance with the law. That independence is further strengthened in the new structures under the Policing, Security and Community Safety Act, which will establish Fiosrú when it is commenced in the autumn. As Minister, I have no role in GSOC investigations, nor can I direct how GSOC officers exercise their functions in which they are, as I mentioned, subject to the law at all times.

I am aware of the media report that I assume the Deputy referred to in the question. Any person who feels that they have a case in law could have recourse to the courts; I want to be careful there. However, no individual has conveyed any information to me, and nothing that has been brought directly to my attention, which would form the basis for the establishment of an inquiry. If the Deputy or any individuals who made this matter public have any specific information that would support any allegations of wrongdoing on the part of GSOC, I would be very grateful to receive that information.

I assure the Deputy that GSOC, like other bodies permitted to access telecommunications data in very limited certain circumstances, is required to exercise its powers in accordance with the law. GSOC, which is chaired by a former judge of the High Court, has advised me and has stated very publicly that it operates at all times in accordance with the law in all of its operations.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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I was referring to the newspaper article written by John Mooney in The Sunday Times last weekend. There have been follow-up articles as well. It came about as a consequence of journalists receiving information they requested from GSOC about themselves. There appears to be solid evidence that the accessing of certain phone records is happening. Does the Minister accept that this is unlawful? Has she not been contacted by GSOC? Has she not contacted GSOC following this? GSOC is accountable to the Minister. Her Department is where its Vote comes through. I accept that when there is an investigation, GSOC has independence. I do not dispute that. However, I want to know how long this has been happening, whether it is lawful, on what legal basis it is happening, how often it occurred, and how many journalists were involved in this case. I understand that there is a basis in very limited circumstances to do this, but this is not what appears to be happening. I am very surprised that the Minister has not received a briefing from GSOC about this. The Minister should not rely on a Deputy to give her information. That is not my function. It is her function, given that GSOC is accountable to her, to satisfy herself that what it is doing is lawful.

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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There is nothing to suggest that this is widespread or current. In fact, the information I have seen very clearly indicates this relates to a particular case in 2016 and prior to that. In 2016, when this issue was raised, and my understanding is that this is potentially the same issue and the same case, a review was instigated. Mr. Justice Murray undertook to review the overall process that GSOC undertakes in relation to this matter. The recommendations from that suggested that there should be some changes related to the need for judicial discretion. Very soon after that, there was the Graham Dwyer case, which went to Europe. Once there was a ruling at a European level, the legislation under which GSOC operated ceased to be the legislation it worked by. Any time there was a request for phone records, it had to go through judicial operation, relying on other legislation. Since then, I brought in subsequent legislation in 2022 that has been enacted, which sets out very clearly the route requiring judicial discretion that GSOC must take. It must apply the rules that if this action is taken, it must be fair, balanced and in the public interest.

I am not aware of any number of incidents other than the one in 2016.

The review has already taken place and the law has already been changed. I have engaged with GSOC and it has assured me that it acts and has always acted in absolute accordance with the law. If somebody has different information, I would ask them to come forward but I do not have any such information. Nothing in the public domain has made it clear to me that there is anything else.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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Has the Minister been in contact with GSOC since that article was written at the weekend? Has she satisfied herself that this is, as she has put on the record of this House, very limited? Is she absolutely satisfied that is the case? If so, on what basis is she satisfied it is the case? Is she aware that a legal case is likely to flow from this? It was reported in one of the newspapers yesterday that this is likely to happen. The NUJ has come out on this as well. I am very surprised. Has the Minister been in contact with GSOC this week following publication of that article? If so, what was the result of that dialogue?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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GSOC has assured me in the last week that it is acting in accordance with the law. There is nothing to suggest there are any other cases of this type. I will be very cautious in speaking about the case the Deputy has referenced because it has been suggested that a legal case may be taken but that case refers to something that happened back in 2016. Subsequently, there was a review undertaken by Mr. Justice Murray, recommendations were implemented, laws were changed at a European level because of the Graham Dwyer case and I have changed the law. There is nothing in the public commentary to suggest that anything happened post 2016. GSOC has assured me that it acts in accordance with the law and I expect that to be the case. If somebody knows something to the contrary, I would ask him or her to come forward. The Deputy is asking me to conduct an inquiry when absolutely no evidence has been presented to me that anything happened here subsequent to 2016. If that is not the case, I ask that evidence be provided. However, I do not have such evidence and have to go by the information I have. As I have said, the landscape and legislative background have changed since 2016, concluding with the 2022 legislation that I enacted.