Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I wish the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, good luck in his campaign for the leadership of the Green Party.

I will start by referring to the Bill digest the Library and Research Service gave us on this legislation, which is very useful. It refers to the Childminding in Ireland survey results 2024, which were published on 10 June. This is an annual survey of childminders. The report states that a consistent theme to emerge was that childminders find bureaucracy frustrating and tiresome and fail to see what benefits the rules and regulations bring. Specifically, the results of the survey show an increase in the number of childminders who are concerned about the incoming changes and regulations. There is a sense of insecurity about what the future will bring to this sector. It should be a major source of concern that there is a relatively low number of people who see themselves being in this sector in three years' time. The graph provided is very interesting. When asked if they intended to register with Tusla under the new regulations, 18.2% of respondents answered "Yes", 13.7% answered "No" and 51.1% said that they did not know. If we allow that half of that 51.1% figure will go each way to "No" and "Yes", it means more than half of the total childminder sector will come out of the business, according to the survey. The second question asked if the provider intended to offer the national childcare scheme when the register opens. Some 18.2% answered "Yes", 6.5% answered "No" and a large number, 44.8%, stated they did not know. The conclusion is that there is a major concern that a relatively low number of people see themselves in the sector in three years' time, and it is borne out by the survey. It remains to be seen, however, where this will go and how much the Minister will listen to those who are writing to all of us expressing grave concerns about the future of the sector.

I have written to the Minister suggesting that the proposed draft of the regulations presents a further bureaucratisation of a system that is already onerous for parents and service providers. Childminders continually reported that regulations are too extreme and will drive them out of childminding. That, in turn, creates a further dearth of places for desperate parents who are already facing difficulties in securing care for their children. There is an over-elaborate and cumbersome process that parents and service providers have to navigate in order to work within the current childcare model. That is very unfortunate because not only does it put children's carers out of business, potentially within three years, but it will also force many parents out of their jobs, precisely because they cannot afford or cannot secure the childcare that suits them.

I will read from parts of the letters I have received, rather than the entire letters, to give a flavour of the concerns about this Bill, the intentions of the Minister and what we might see coming out at the other end. The first letter states:

I have been working as a childminder in Wicklow Town for the last 15 years.

... I am extremely concerned about the lack of understanding of what childminding is, in these proposed regulations and about the negative impact that these proposals will have on my individual service and on other childminders' services. Many of the childminders that I am in contact with are considering ceasing trading if the regulations passed do not reflect the unique care that childminding is, i.e. a "home away from home".

We need to get this regulation right for the sake of the current and future children that are minded by childminders and for childminding to continue to be a flexible and loving home away from home childcare option for parents.

That is part of one of the letters.

A second letter states:

I am passionate about providing a loving and fun home away from home environment for the children I mind. I welcome the idea of regulating and recognizing the work childminders do, both for the sake of the families and children that avail of our services and for ourselves that provide the service. When the National Action Plan for Childminding was launched in May 2021 I was very hopeful as a plan seemed to be in place to develop it together with existing childminders. When we finally were able to read the Draft Child Care Act 1991 (Early Years Services) Childminding Regulation 2024 I was disappointed. We, the childminders, were told that the regulations would be specific for childminders but these proposed regulations are not. I am not an early year service provider and I am not working on premises. I am a Childminder and I work in my home. I feel the draft regulations are written to change childminding, not nurture it. The childminder or the children we mind are not at the core of it. The flexibility and care that childminders provide to their families is not supported.

It has taken 2 1/2 years to write these regulations and they are as vague and unclear as can be. The things that childminders expressed most concern about at the start of the process (education needs, nature of inspection on our homes, administration and paperwork etc) have not been defined what so ever but instead left to be decided on until after the legislation has been passed.

The author states that childminders are not early years services but childminders and need they need to be defined and regulated separately from the current Child Care Act of 1991.

I have had a look through the regulations and what this childminder and others have described and it is really heavy bananas in terms of bureaucratisation of the sector. There are sections on training, assessment of suitability and the maximum number of children that childminders can mind. Some of them make the point that childminders are the cornerstone of baby-minding. Frequently, babies are minded by neighbours, parents or family members of some sort or another. This is done in the home setting and all homes are different. A bigger house does not necessarily mean better care. A posher or more accessible house does not necessarily mean better care.

There are elements of the regulations on supervision, food and drink, insurance, registration, keeping records on children, notification of incidents, inspection, enforcement and execution, and legal irregularities. I understand there may be a reason for all of this, that it is a child-centred Bill meant to protect children and the provision of care they receive, etc. However, a fully publicly run childcare service, from the cradle to 18 years of age, is absent. Schools are publicly run. We would not send our children into a mishmash of private sector education that educates them from the age of four, five and six until the age of 18. Education is publicly run, as it should be. Why are early years services and childminding for babies onwards privately run and, therefore, left with all of these regulations and different cumbersome bureaucratic mechanisms that parents and childminders have to go through? In the absence of a publicly run service, whether it is for children or elderly people, more casual and relaxed informal arrangements will exist between people. By the way, these are mostly in working-class areas where people have lower incomes, are poorer and depend on each other and on neighbours and families.

I will compare childcare to home help services. Before I was elected to the Dáil, People Before Profit took part in a campaign with home help providers all over our constituencies. A big part of that campaign involved working with home help providers, many of whom were my neighbours. These were neighbours I watched going out every day to look after other neighbours, clean their houses, help them with their medication, collect their pension and buy their messages. These were neighbours who knew and trusted each other and who, at the end of the week, would pick up a few bob from an office, usually HSE run, for minding other neighbours. That was all torn apart on the basis of regulating the industry. All of the type of literature I referred to about regulations, health and safety, training and accountability then came into play to the extent that a large number of neighbours left these home help jobs. Today, we find ourselves with a fully privatised care sector for the elderly which is not fit for purpose. This is why people are left in hospitals being called "bed-blockers". We cannot send them home because they do not have a home help service to look after them and the private service is not up to scratch and is not available. It is a real tragedy not to see that the casualisation of services that are not publicly provided often serves working-class areas the best. It is working-class people, the poorest, who will be hit the hardest if we do not get this right.

We are asking the Minister to listen to the sector, look at the regulations and not make them so cumbersome and such a burden that more than half of childminders will pull out of providing services within three years. Ultimately, this will impact on parents and workers we need in the workplace.

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I also wish the Minister well in his endeavours in the near future. I also pass on my best wishes to the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, who has always been approachable. There is probably still an issue or two I could do with the Minister getting across the line before he finishes. He spoke about future plans and the impact of politics on family. I pass on those best wishes.

This Bill is fairly straightforward on some level. I do not think there is anyone who does not recognise the importance of childminding and how different it is from many of the other subjects that we deal with in the House. The idea behind the Bill is, first, to provide enhanced enforcement measures in relation to early years and childcare services and, second, to provide for the extension of regulation to all paid and non-relative childminders. A number of definitions need to be dealt with as regards childminding services, etc. The Bill sets out a framework in which Tusla will play a huge part in enforcement.

I add my voice to the call for a greater level of engagement with those involved in childminding, many of whom do not believe there has been a sufficient amount of consultation or that their voices have necessarily been heard. That engagement is needed. We would all like to see circumstances where more families could avail of subsidies for childminding. We need to make sure there is some sort of incentive for childminders to sign up to these draft regulations.

There needs to be a change of tack regarding the interaction with childminders. We need to make sure their voice is heard and we need a system they can trust and engage with, and which benefits them. It must provide all the necessary supports. We must also make sure we have the correct level of regulation from the point of view of making sure children's rights are looked after. That is an absolute necessity. We all get the aim of the Bill. It is a matter of making sure it is fit for purpose.

We dealt previously with the national childcare scheme and we discussed homework clubs and so on, particularly in disadvantaged areas. In fairness, the Minister worked to correct some of the problems that existed with that, resulting in the continuation of necessary services. I would like to see the same commonsense approach in relation to this from now on.

In talking about childminding and Tusla, huge effort needs to be put into early family support and early intervention. This is a missing piece. Many of us end up dealing with chaos that could have been avoided if those interventions had been made earlier.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak on this subject, which has an impact on all families.

As I listened to the debate yesterday, and again today, I thought back to my own time, when our children were small. We were lucky enough to be able to build a house in rural Ireland beside my parents and brother. Childminding was not as big an issue then because we had family support around us when our children were small. The children could be minded by my grandmother, my sister-in-law next door, or whoever. It worked well. There was a kind of meitheal in that because people worked with one another. Costs were not really an issue because it was all done on the basis that we were all a family. As time went on, and as those children grew up and my grandmother got older, those same children were able to help her out and keep her at home longer. My point is that we had an ideal situation in rural Ireland, but because of these rules and regulations that have come in regarding where we can build houses and pressurised areas, we have isolated and split up families. Some of them are living in towns and do not have that necessary back-up they used to have.

I will say two or three things about the Bill. The system is overly regulated, overly bureaucratic, and is driving childcare providers out of business. They just do not want to be involved; it is too cumbersome. When we say that people are on a waiting list to get into a childminding service, that should ring alarm bells because the services are not there. Some of the people who were providing services have left because it was more trouble than it was worth. I am worried about the fact that there are too many regulations and too much paperwork to be done. The question is for what gain. The Minister talked about health and safety, planning permission, fire certification and so on. Those are all taken as a given, but there is significantly more paperwork that has to be done. The providers may not have the expertise to deal with all this paperwork. They then run into trouble if every piece of paper is not right when a Tusla inspection takes place. That in itself is creating uncertainty. In addition, it means that a lot more money has to be spent on regulating premises. That is reducing providers' overall funding and means that they cannot pay as much to the employees working for them. It has a roll-on effect.

The Minister talked about consultation. He said there was some consultation leading up to this Bill being introduced. Consultation is one thing, but it is only when things are put into practice that people realise whether they are working or not, especially when we are talking about additional regulations and giving more powers to Tusla. I will ask a number of questions about Tusla. Is it equipped to monitor and enforce the regulations that are there? Has it the necessary resources to oversee what we are asking it to oversee? As an agency, it has many other irons in the fire. I get reports that it just does not have the resources to deal with things. Time goes by, maybe six or eight weeks of toing and froing, before it will respond to certain queries coming from providers.

My fear is that we will end up in a situation where we will have a fine, highly regulated service, but we will find it hard to get private providers to deliver what is required. We have a population that is increasing. We have additional demand for the service because most people are working and people are living where they do not have family supports. They are living in towns where the support is not there and there is a huge and increased demand for childminding. Often, people have to go to work to pay for their mortgage and make sure they provide for their family; that is both husband and wife or two people in the house. Childminding, therefore, becomes a very big part of their overall lives up until their children leave national school.

It is important that whatever we put in place, it will be workable, flexible and will allow those people who are carrying out inspections the ability and agility to make common-sense decisions when problems arise. I have come across cases where places were closed down because providers did not have the paperwork right. There was nothing wrong with the service they were giving. I know of one service where parents were totally supportive of what was being done but because the person running it did not have that necessary skill to fill out all the paperwork that was required, and have computer literacy to keep on top of that paperwork, what was a small unit eventually had to close. There was then a big furore over where those children were to go the following morning. Men and women were taking time off work to try to mind their children while the emergency was sorted out. That is the kind of situation we are involved in. Simplicity and simple rules and regulations, properly enforced, will deliver a better service for less money and will probably make the industry more attractive for people to provide the service. That is what we have to achieve.

I encourage the Minister to look at this from the point of view of not making something that is over-regulated. While standards have to be met, the important thing is what we do to make sure we have a children's service that is workable, safe and not over-regulated.

I wish the Minister well in his endeavours over the next period, along with his colleague, in their party's leadership race.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I alert Members that we are working quickly through Second Stage of the Bill. I will call the last speaker and then go to the Minister.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I wish the Minister well in throwing his hat into the ring. As regards the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, while I had many a chat with him in the Chamber over the past number of years since 2016, I could talk to him very well. We get on sound. I might not agree with his policies, but I will draw a separate political line between the man and the ball, as we say in the country. I also wish him well.

I listened to the Minister on the radio yesterday, when rural Ireland was referred to. He said that the Green Party had to listen to people and get in contact with rural Ireland. I will tell him a little story. My kids and I lived out in what would be called the sticks in the countryside. There were no big crèche facilities at the time. There are today, thankfully. I have a grandchild. When children's names are being put down, they have to wait a year or 18 months in most places now. While there are great facilities throughout the country, they are not always available straight away or people could be 18 months waiting. To go back to my children, a neighbour or someone up or down the road facilitated a husband or wife to be able to go to work because if that neighbour was not there or did not do that, the parents would be left in a situation where one of them would have to stay at home. The Minister talked about listening. I remember my kids going over to a neighbour every day. They would go out in a puddle of water and then come in. They were minded so well, to be frank, we would not have minded them as well. They integrated into a family - the people minding them had children as well - and they were all one and were minded. Each one of them minded each other. There was no special training. There was no nothing. What was there was a fatherly instinct and a motherly instinct from the father and mother who looked after them in that house.

They minded those children as well or better than if they were their own.

I will address what we are doing now, which is why I asked the Minister to listen. Under the legislation that came before this Bill, there was an exemption. Off the top of my head, I think you could mind up to four children or three youngsters and three bigger ones without having to register. I have talked to people around the country. I know family members can mind children but Ireland has changed a bit. At one time, there would have been a granny in the house who would mind the kids or some member of the family would have been at home. Ireland, and especially rural Ireland, has changed an awful lot, however. Everyone has gone working. That is a good thing. Both men and women have the opportunity to go to work. The problem now is that, while we may know someone down the road or up the road, they are not going to be interested in doing it any more. I have talked to a great many people. This morning, I talked to a woman in Roscommon who has been at it all her life. Does the Minister know what she said to me? The Minister has talked about a three-year transition but these people are going to walk away. What are we going to have then?

In Ireland, we go from hero to zero. It is full pell-mell or nothing. We can never do middle of the road stuff or go for the happy medium. The Minister should always remember that, when parents bring their kids to somebody near them or up or down the road who minds children, they make sure that person is looking after their kids well. They are confident and they make sure. You do not give your kids to somebody unless you are sure they are going to be sound.

Big crèches are a different ballgame because there are a lot of staff and all of that. Where you have a small number of children, whether very young babies or playschool-aged children, it is a totally different ballgame. I will tell the Minister what we will end up doing. He can talk to the people involved. There is an issue in most areas of society and most scenarios. I will give an example. In water, there was a time when the likes of me could tender for a job but now, with Irish Water, you have to have a turnover of €1 million or €10 million. All of the different procurement systems are about the big guys. I do not know whether it is the EU that is driving this or something else. With this Bill, we are going to take out the person who had been doing the job locally.

By the way, they have no problem whatsoever with Garda vetting. If you read the legislation, if someone comes into the house for a mug of tea, as they do in rural Ireland, while the kids are there, he or she is not supposed to be anywhere close to them. You might go out to the clothesline to bring out the washing but the legislation says that you are not supposed to leave at any stage if the person looking after the kids is not trained. It is just madness. What we are doing is the Civil Service gone mad with regulation again. We are trying to bring in the same rules for a crèche taking care of 100 kids as for someone taking care of three. The people who do this type of work will not fill out the paperwork or go through that process. They will just get out. That is it.

We should think outside the box and consider what would help parents. As I have said, nobody has a problem with getting Garda vetted. Why do we not just say that, if the children are being minded by someone up or down the road, the parent will be given a tax credit while the other system will apply where the children are going to a crèche? We should facilitate all sides because there are a few things that are going to go wrong here. There is something like 6,000 or 6,500 children being minded in small set-ups that are minding one or two youngsters rather than in the crèches. It is my understanding that approximately 6,000 of them are being minded by 2,800 or 3,000 people. That is about two children for every one carer. If they leave, and all signs suggest they will, we will end up putting pressure on the system.

The Minister has done a good bit. I give him credit for the help he has given the crèches and so on. I am not here to castigate anyone but we need to listen to what is going on. It is hard for the Minister because he is from a city constituency but, if he knew anything about the more rural areas, he would know that it is always someone up or down the road who will mind the children. I know that relations can do it. I have a grandchild who comes to the house regularly. He gets picked up from the crèche, having finally got into one. The Minister is not even thinking of shift work and other different types of work. If you were off this week, the local person down the road would have no problem and the child would not go over. If you were doing a night shift, that person would oblige you. That is the flexibility we have with those people.

The one thing I ask of the Minister is to leave the exemption in. I am only talking about an exemption for up to four kids, no more. If it gets bigger, that is it. However, that is needed. It facilitates younger couples who are trying to pay off mortgages and who may be trying to get a child into crèche. You could be waiting six, eight or 18 months to get a child into a crèche. While you are waiting, you need someone to look after your child.

I do not want to oppose the Bill. When the Minister starts talking, I ask him to tell us whether he will provide that exemption. I do not want to be calling votes or anything but I feel very strongly that these people will walk away. We know the nuts and bolts of the rural areas. I listened to the Minister and he said he was going to listen to rural people's voices. I ask him to consider this rather than us having to call a vote on it and having to argue over and back. I do not mind Garda vetting or anything like that. There is no problem that way. However, we do not see the problem that will fester in many areas where there may not be accommodation or facilities for children. Many crèches close at 6 p.m. or 7 p.m. If you were held up, the people I am talking about would always facilitate the family. I ask the Minister to consider that and to comment on it when he speaks again. I am not going to take up a heap of time on it.

Our kids were reared by a neighbour and I could not praise them enough. Does the Minister think that person would go at it today? There is not a chance. There is talk of Tusla and so on. It is like using a big whip on a small industry that helps a great many people around this country. I have no problem with the regulation of crèches and all of that but we are starting to go over the top with a lot of this. I agree that child safety is of the utmost importance but it should be remembered that parents will not drop their children to someone up or down the road without having them checked out better than any State agency ever could. They will make sure. They know the person well and are probably his or her friends.

Generally, the person minding the children, the mother of that house, would have reared a family or would be rearing a family. They would be picked out as leaders in society. We are now going to drive them away with something we love in this country, the increased regulation of a service no one could put a price on. You cannot put a price on the flexibility of someone doing things like that for you. To be frank, you sometimes would not even pay them. I remember them buying the kids a jumper or trousers or giving them something at Christmas. They would also feed them. No one can put a price on a happy little home like that for kids.

Now we are going to try to regulate them out, because the fear is the big thing. Providers are not being listened to. We will hear the story that there were three or four representatives or whatever, but we are often on committees and express our view and we hear back that such a person was consulted and so on, but the policy drives on in the same direction. I am asking the Minister to leave that little bit in it so we can continue with those great people who have been giving, are giving and I hope will continue to give us that service, especially in the rural areas and the smaller towns. If this legislation comes in the way it is, we will end up losing those people. We will have lost another part of the fabric of our society and all because of legislation.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I thank the Deputies for their kind remarks to me and their very detailed and considered contributions to this debate today and yesterday.

Childminding happens in Blanchardstown and all over Dublin. It is a phenomenon that happens all over the country. Childminders support so many families and children. Deputy Fitzmaurice is right that some of is because of the pressure on services. Some of it is because of the flexibility they provide. Some of it is just because some parents prefer that. Other parents do not want to primarily use centre-based childcare. Childminding is such an important part of the fabric of early learning and care in our country. One of the reasons we are bringing regulation, which must be appropriate regulation, into this sector is the parents who use childminders are not getting the same supports as parents who use centre-based childcare, namely, the NCS financial support. That is important because there are so many costs for parents with young families these days. We as a Government have done a lot to support those families who use centre-based care. We want to do more for those who are using childcare services as well.

Deputy Fitzmaurice spoke about listening. I have childminders in my constituency. I have met many of them on the doors over the years and I have met them specifically on the regulations that are undergoing public consultation over this summer. I think I met someone from the Deputy’s constituency. Deputy Naughten asked me to meet a constituent to talk about it. They reflected some of the concerns heard here. I have heard there is a distinction, maybe, between childminders who want appropriate regulation and some who want no regulation at all. I cannot meet the needs of that latter group. There has to be some regulation in this space, because the other part of the Bill we are bringing in is to deal with some very rare but very serious situations where the owners and managers of centre-based childcare acted in a way that shocked us all. We all saw that programme a number of years ago. We are bringing in regulation because we believe the State and Tusla must have the necessary mechanisms to deal with those situations. The vast majority of care undertaken by childminders, just like the vast majority of care undertaken in centre-based childcare, is loving, good and of a high standard. The State has be able to provide regulation for the really rare situations where the level of care is not good. Deputy Fitzmaurice is right that every parent will check and will know, but sometimes people are false in what they convey and a parent may not know what else is happening. That is why there has to be an element of regulation.

It was said yesterday we are asking providers to talk about the nutritional needs they meet for the children. If a childminder is looking after a two-year-old every day of the week, we need to know that kid is getting a decent meal. That is not excessive. We ask that of centre-based childcare and it is not excessive to ask that in a childminding situation. We know that in virtually all situations they are meeting that, but when we are dealing with children in a most vulnerable situation, 99% of the time is not okay because we must have assurance about all situations. I am aware of the concerns that have been raised. They have been raised with me directly. The regulations that were out for public consultation are draft regulations. I have been very clear that changes will be made on foot of the submissions we have received. Much of the discussion over the past two days has been about the content of the regulations. In fairness to Deputy Fitzmaurice, most of his focus was on the Bill itself. We are talking about the Bill, but I will address some of the regulation points as I go through my contribution

The purpose of the Bill is to ensure Tusla’s early years inspectorate has the appropriate enforcement powers and to remove that current exemption for regulation for Part 7 relating to childminders. There was a lot of discussion the number of childminders in the country but 53,000 is the number of children the census says are minded by childminders. From our engagement and consultation with childminders, most of them are looking after an average of four children. That suggests there are 13,000 to 14,000 childminders in the country. The figure 53,000 was used for the number of childminders yesterday and I think it refers to the number of children who are being looked after by childminders.

There was criticism of the public consultation on the regulations that took place over the summer. That was a 12-week consultation period that ran from February to May. It had more than 1,000 inputs from childminders, parents and other stakeholders. There were 52 focus groups, with at least one in every county. There was an online survey that childminders and parents who use their services could access. There were written submissions and a national stakeholders’ day when many of the organisations involved in this were brought together and engaged with my Department. A report on that whole process is being prepared. It will be published when it is finalised and it and the individual engagements I have had with childminders will influence the changes we make to the draft regulations. This is not our first engagement in the area of childminding. We have a national action plan for childminding. That was the result of two extensive consultation processes between 2016 and 2018 and another in 2019.

As to the consultation on the Bill before us, my Department undertook a public consultation between March and October of 2022 on the policies contained in it. Childminding Ireland is an organisation that represents a significant number of childminders. It has been involved in the process from the very beginning and its representatives, as well as practising childminders, are on the steering group for the national action plan. I have been very clear that I will meet Childminding Ireland in respect of the changing of the regulations from draft regulations into final regulations. The key point behind these regulations is that they are proportionate, appropriate to home and family settings and that they are sensitive to the unique features of childminding. Childminding is different to centre-based early learning and care and that is at the centre of what we are trying to do. There is a criticism the draft regulations are not distinct enough. I have heard that criticism and we will look to respond to that. A number of the issues raised yesterday do not fall within this Bill but are part of that discussion on the regulations. These include the fees set for registration, the information on childminders that will appear on the register, the notice period to inform Tusla of changes to the register, the possibility of Tusla interviewing someone applying to register as a childminder, the requirements regarding food, the maximum number of children, the supervision of children who are in the visitor’s home, the safety of the home and who needs to be Garda-vetted. They are all issues for the regulation rather than the Bill before us. However, they are valid questions so I will try to address a couple of those points that are relevant to the regulations.

On the issue of the sharing of personal data, my Department has engaged with the Data Protection Commissioner and continue to work with the Data Protection Commission to ensure that, as regards the draft childminding regulations, any requirement to process personal data is done in full compliance with GDPR requirements.

The issue of the registration fee has not been determined yet. The current registration fee for the small number of childminders who are registered is €40 per annum. I do not see any case to dramatically depart from that. I am not saying that will be it exactly, but that is the ballpark we are talking in - €40, or that sort of figure, per year.

As regards Garda vetting, the draft childminding regulations do not propose that visitors to the childminder's home should be vetted. The only reference to visitors in the draft regulation is the proposal that the childminder should have sight of the child she or he is caring for if the child is in the company of a visitor who does not normally reside in the house. That is not overly onerous, but that is something we will discuss.

The Bill makes it possible to regulate childminders but does not specify what those regulations should be. What the Bill does provide is the definition of a childminding service and an early years service, the removal of the exemption, the three-year transition period and amendments to other legislation to ensure that childminders are able to be Garda-vetted, fall within the scope of the Children First Act 2015 and, really importantly, are able to take part in the national childcare scheme, NCS, so the parents who use their service can get that benefit of lower childcare fees. That need to access the NCS was mentioned yesterday, and that is the central principle underpinning the proposals and underpinning what we are trying to do in the regulation of childminding, which is to allow parents benefit from those significant subsidies.

A number of Deputies asked about the transition period. A three-year transition period is set out in the Bill before registration becomes mandatory for childminders. The reason behind that duration is to try to again provide a reasonable balance between, on the one hand, achieving the benefits of regulation at the earliest opportunity - and that again is in particular allowing parents who use the services of childminders benefit from the NCS - and, on the other, providing childminders a sufficient period to understand and to prepare for this regulatory process. I recognise that this is a change. That is why we are giving people time to adjust to align themselves to a new system.

A couple of Deputies, including Deputy Ó Murchú, raised the issue of incentives and supports for childminders in this transition. We have an extensive programme of engagement with childminders proposed to support them through the registration process and to support them as regards sustainability. My Department has funded, through the city and county childcare committees, the appointment of a childminding development officer in every county in the country. We will also continue to explore financial supports that may be available for childminders. There is one taxation measure in place at the moment but, as regards the benefit to the parent, we should use the existing system, the NCS, because we know it works well and we know it directly reduces the cost of childcare for parents in a centre-based setting and can do so in a childminding setting. More recently, a number of changes have been made to the childminding development grant to make it more useful for childminders, especially those preparing for registration.

By registering as a childminder under the new system, childminders will also be able to apply to join core funding, which is the actual financial support that right now the State is providing to centre-based childcare. Childminders will be able to benefit, so the State will actually provide them with a new direct financial support in recognising the importance of different types of childcare arrangements in the country.

A number of questions were asked about Tusla's ability to deal with the increased numbers registering. Again, it is a three-year transition period. We know all childminders will not register immediately but we have provided significant additional funding to Tusla's early years inspectorate in 2024 to enable the expansion of its registration and inspection functions. An extra €3 million annually was specifically provided to the early years inspectorate to engage with childminders. That will support the appointment of 33 additional staff and help ensure that the inspectorate has the appropriate ICT systems in place to support the registration of childminders. I have full confidence that Tusla will be able to engage and successfully integrate childminders into the inspection system.

More broadly with regard to other provisions in the Bill, there has been support across this House for the introduction of the enhanced enforcement powers for Tusla. As I stated yesterday, the provisions strengthen the enforcement processes that are available to Tusla by putting on a statutory footing the relevant processes and procedures and ensuring they are fair and transparent. The Bill allows Tusla to address serious non-compliance in a timely and effective manner where there is an immediate and grave risk to the health, safety or welfare of children attending a service. The Bill makes clear the processes as regards the courts in the event of an appeal in respect of the use of any of these enforcement tools. The Bill also allows for appropriate powers as regards the inspections and the need to search premises or seize relevant documents where appropriate. The Bill provides the regulation-making powers to ensure that those running an early years service are fit and proper persons to carry out their role. It will also ensure that parents have access to appropriate information on the quality of early years services, including information on any enforcement action that took place.

Deputy Shortall referred to the separation of the issues contained in this Bill from wider legislative reform of the Child Care Act 1991 that my Department is implementing. I assure her and other Deputies that that Bill, which is much bigger legislation dealing with some quite complex issues around the principles of an obligation on all State agencies to co-operate with Tusla in the context of the care of children, is being worked on by my Department. I am hopeful that we can get it published and maybe debated here on Second Stage before we rise for the summer. However, as regards the particular issues in this Bill, if we are to enable childminders to start to register in the autumn, we needed to get this Bill legislated for before the end of this term. I emphasise that the larger Bill dealing with issues to do with children in care is almost complete and, as I said, I hope to see it in the House for Second Stage before the end of the term.

I thank Deputies for their engagement. I and my Department absolutely recognise the huge role that childminders play in this country. We are conscious of the concerns that are out there in terms of the changed system we are looking to bring about. I believe that an element of regulation in this regard is important but it has to be appropriate and proportionate. I have heard the concerns that childminders have about the draft regulations, and those concerns will be listened to. I cannot say every single concern or every single issue raised will be changed but the final draft of the regulation will reflect the engagement and will reflect a meaningful response to the concerns that have been raised during this process.