Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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When will the State appoint a pathologist to serve County Kerry? The two pathologists we had previously have been retired for well over six months. Many families have had to wait six, eight or nine days for a pathologist to arrive to carry out the necessary examination, make a conclusion on the cause of death and return the remains to the family. In recent times, the families of three very good friends of mine, Jeremiah Dunlea from Scartaglen, Ann Cronin from Maughantoorig in Gneeveguilla and Dan O'Donoghue from Lisbabe, as well as several other families, had to wait six, eight and nine days. This is not good enough at all.

We have been helped by Dr. Margot Bolster, who has done her utmost to fill the void. She has to do the examinations early in the morning, late at night and at the weekends. On one occasion, she had to do an examination on a bank holiday Monday. I thank Aisling Quilter and her staff in Tralee and Helen Lucey and her staff in Listowel. The staff in the morgue in Tralee give excellent help and are always accessible and available. Undertakers have even indicated they would take remains up the country to Cork, Dublin, Limerick and elsewhere to get the examinations carried out in a timely fashion.

The system that currently pertains in Kerry is not acceptable. When will a pathologist be appointed for the county? I have had different replies on the matter from the Minister for Justice. The Minister for Health has a role in this as well. I am asking that the situation be sorted out. If it is the case that a permanent pathologist cannot be found for Kerry, I ask that undertakers be allowed to take remains to Cork, Limerick or even Dublin. It is not acceptable that families have to wait up to nine days for a post mortem and up to 11 days to have the funeral concluded. They just want to get the remains home. Death comes suddenly, with no notice. When a body is taken to the morgue in Tralee, all the family wants is for the post mortem to be concluded, the remains returned and to have a dignified funeral, with their friends around them to help them grieve. It is a natural process.

What is happening in Kerry is too stressful for families. I appeal to the Government to do something about it. If a pathologist for Kerry cannot be found in Ireland, surely somebody can be sourced from abroad. The case is being made for migrants to come here. We need a full-time pathologist in Kerry. We are no different from any other part of the country. The State is neglecting its statutory obligation to carry out post mortems in a timely fashion in Kerry.

Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this important matter, on which I will update the House on behalf of the Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly. I extend my sympathies to the families who have experienced a waiting period for the carrying out of a post mortem. I understand the concerns raised about the delay in post mortem services in Kerry. I appreciate that the current situation may be adding to family stress during an already difficult time.

The Office of the State Pathologist, OSP, is an important independent body under the auspices of the Department of Justice. The OSP provides the State with a national forensic pathology service whereby a forensic pathologist is on duty, 24 hours a day, each day of the year. The pathologist's primary remit is to perform post mortem examinations in suspicious deaths, as directed by the coroner. There are four forensic pathologists based in Dublin, with additional support provided by a forensic pathologist in Cork on a rota basis. Post mortem examinations in non-suspicious deaths under the remit of the coroner are directed to be performed by hospital-based histopathology consultants. Post mortem examination is an important part of clinical care and one of the most informative investigations in medicine. It can provide objective information on the cause of death, which is of value to the family of the deceased and also to healthcare professionals.

The HSE has advised that the pathology service in University Hospital Kerry is supported as required on a regional basis by consultants based in Cork University Hospital. The role of hospital-based histopathology consultants cannot be understated. Their work in conducting post mortem examinations in non-suspicious deaths provides closure to families and valuable insights to healthcare professionals. It is a critical part of our healthcare system. We are committed to supporting the consultants in their work.

The regional support provided by consultants based in Cork University Hospital to the pathology service in University Hospital Kerry is an example of our integrated approach to healthcare. We believe in the power of collaboration and shared expertise and we are continually looking for ways to improve our services through such partnerships. I hope family members can find some comfort in the knowledge that information gained from post-mortem examinations contributes significantly to our understanding of diseases. This, in turn, advances medical knowledge and aids in the fight against disease, ultimately benefiting others through improved treatment methods. We are committed to ensuring the vital service is accessible in an efficient way.

If there was a delay, then I extend my sympathies to the families. It obviously should not be occurring. I will take on board the concerns the Deputy has raised.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State for the reply but with regard to a lot of the stuff he said, we know what happens and what is supposed to happen but it has not been happening in Kerry. I am not making it up that three very good friends of mine had to wait six, eight and nine days, with the funeral taking up to 11 days in all. There have also been several more that I was not aware of but was made aware of it by the coroner's office. It was waiting for those people as well.

It is not good enough. People need to have a dignified funeral in an acceptable period of time, and 11 days is too long for a funeral to be concluded. That puts a strain on a family waiting for the corpse to come home. One can only imagine the anguish, torture and torment that people have to go through with this. If the Government cannot find a pathologist - and it says it has been looking for one for over six months now - it must do something better to help the people of Kerry. It should arrange for the undertakers to bring the bodies to a designated place and for them to be seen to in a timely fashion. The people of Kerry are entitled to the same services that the people up here in Dublin have. The Minister of State says there are four forensic pathologists in Dublin. It is not much good to the people of Kerry if they are up here in Dublin, or in Cork or somewhere else, and will not go down to Kerry to perform a post-mortem. That has not been happening, and what has been happening is not good enough.

I appeal to the Minister of State. The two Ministers involved, the Ministers for Justice and Health, will have to do something reasonable about this to facilitate people and families in Kerry who lose their family members.

Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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It is important that we distinguish between suspicious and non-suspicious deaths. The former come under the State pathologist's remit. I have outlined that there are four in Dublin and one in Cork. Where there is a suspicious death, they become involved. In other cases of non-suspicious deaths, that matter is dealt with in the hospital and within the hospital area.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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We know all of that.

Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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I have set that out but I think it is important that we get the message across that post-mortems are dealt with in two distinct ways. Post-mortem examinations in non-suspicious deaths under the remit of the coroner are directed to be performed by hospital-based histopathology consultants.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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Sure we know that.

Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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I did not interrupt the Deputy.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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We know that. I am referring to those where people have to wait six, eight and nine days. That is not good enough.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Deputy, please, you had six minutes. Let the Minister of State finish.

Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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I did not interrupt the Deputy. What I am saying is there is co-ordination, as I understand it, between University Hospital Kerry and Cork University Hospital with regard to the provision of services. If there were delays, I will check what the reason is for those and revert to the Deputy. I will also get him the average time it takes for post-mortems. The figures I have for 2021 show there were over 5,071 post-mortems performed in HSE hospitals in 2021. That is a huge number. Where there is a suspicious death, the State pathologist gets involved, and if it is a non-suspicious death, it is hospital-based consultants who are involved.

The HSE has advised that the pathology service in University Hospital Kerry is supported, as required, on a regional basis by consultants based in Cork University Hospital. I understand any delays may cause additional distress for already grieving families and I offer my condolences to all of the families affected. I assure families that coroners throughout the country work closely with hospitals and consultant pathologists at a local level to ensure that post-mortems are carried out as directed and in a timely manner. I will take on board what the Deputy has said. I will go back to the Department and the HSE to see if there is a specific issue with regard to the Deputy's area.