Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Tá tuilleadh moille tagtha ar ospidéal na leanaí, agus tuilleadh airgid ag teastáil. Tá an Rialtas ina gcodladh agus é seo uilig ag titim amach agus ag dul le sruth.

Many years ago, when Deputy Leo Varadkar was Minister for Health, he said that short of an asteroid hitting the planet, the national children's hospital would be built by 2020. Today we have learned that the fiasco continues in respect of the building of the national children's hospital as it spirals further out of control. The board overseeing the project has told the Committee of Public Accounts that the contractor has pushed out the completion date yet again for the hospital, this time to February 2025. The Tánaiste knows that after that date, there is another nine months to commission the hospital before it is ready to open and take in patients. The chief officer of the board has told the committee that he cannot even guarantee that date will be met in the first instance. It is an absolute farce. Today we have learned that costs continue to spiral for the taxpayer, that there is no certainty about when the hospital will be ready to take patients, and promises the Government has given have been broken. The safe bet now is that the hospital will not be open to patients until 2026.

In the middle of all this, under the Government's watch, there are 100,000 children languishing on waiting lists. There are 251 children with scoliosis who are waiting for life-altering operations. It was to them that the now Taoiseach, Deputy Harris, cynically gave that promise that he has broken over and over again that none of them would have to wait more than four months for their life-changing treatment. They need that hospital more than anyone. They need that hospital built.

The initial cost of this hospital was supposed to be €650 million. Now we learn that the cost has increased to more than €2.2 billion. I do not know if the Tánaiste has seen it but the board today could not actually guarantee that it would not go higher. This is crazy stuff. The Government has lost all control in respect of the cost and delivery of this project. Is it any wonder? The Minister and the Government are asleep at the wheel. This has been a slow-moving car crash from day one. The Minister for Health and his predecessors have been asleep at the wheel. We have raised this issue over and over again. The last time I raised it with the then Taoiseach, Deputy Varadkar, last year, he dismissed our concerns. When we warned that the project was a runaway train, that it required the Minister to roll up his sleeves and get stuck in, to take a hands-on approach, he dismissed our concerns. He told me that the hospital would be treating patients this year, another broken promise.

The public, the taxpayer, the children waiting for this hospital cannot believe a word that comes from the Government when it comes to the national children's hospital. Every single target, every single financial cost has been broken or surpassed. In any other walk of life, people would be held to account but there is nobody being held to account. The board told the Committee of Public Accounts earlier that not one penalty has been lodged against the contractor because of the delays. Not one person is being held to account for this fiasco, with billions of euro of taxpayers' money being squandered on overruns in a hospital that is badly needed, with delay after delay. Who is ultimately accountable for this failure? I put it to the Tánaiste that his Government is, that he is and that the person sitting beside him, the Minister for Health who is completely asleep at the wheel, is accountable for this. Not once did he meet the board last year. Billions of euro with additional cheques being run, new dates after new dates, delay after delay, and the board not even able to say if it will open in 2025, yet the Minister did not meet the board once last year. That is how incompetent this Government is. Will the Government and the Minister accept responsibility for the fiasco that is the national children's hospital? Will the Tánaiste commit that the Government will take action and the Minister with responsibility will address this fiasco for once and for all?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Ní aontaím leis an Teachta. Is é an rud is tábhachtaí ná go mbeimid in ann an t-ospidéal seo a chríochnú agus go háirithe, in ann déileáil go láidir le BAM. Maidir leis na dátaí atá ag an Teachta, go bunúsach tá BAM freagrach as an t-ospidéal seo a chruthú. B'fhéidir nach bhfuil sé ar intinn ag an Teachta é seo a dhéanamh, ach tá dáinséar ann go bhfuil sé ag argóint i bhfabhar BAM. What I am going to say to the Deputy is that he needs to be very careful in the sense that he is not being used as a pawn-----

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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You have tried that tack before.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----in terms of a very strong and robust engagement between the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board, the Government and BAM. All the deadlines he came through with there are deadlines that BAM set. It is likely to be part of a commercial strategy by BAM to try to extract more funding and more money from the Irish people.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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What are you doing about it?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I put it to the Deputy that I am not going to take debate and I suggest he does not take debate either. For the last few years there has been a very robust engagement through dispute resolution mechanisms. The Deputy will cite hundreds of millions that have been submitted in respect of claims but the net outcome of those claims is actually a fraction of the overall cost of the hospital. In other words, there has been a very robust, tenacious engagement between the contractor, the company in this case, and the development board through the various arbitration methods. Unfortunately, the bottom line is BAM has not resourced this project sufficiently for quite some time. I call on BAM to resource the site adequately and comprehensively to enable this hospital to be completed as fast as we possibly can. The Government is fair and is dealing with this in a fair manner. However, we are not going to tell BAM to finish this at any cost or throw to one side proper procedural approaches as to how claim and counter-claim are resolved and contracts are enforced. That is an important point.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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We did not ask you to.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The deadlines to which the Deputy refers have all been submitted by BAM at different times. I am not sure whether he is saying we should go straight to the High Court or Supreme Court and suspend all work on the project. I do not know if that is the Deputy's suggestion to the Government. Our objective is to get the hospital completed as quickly as we possibly can. BAM has submitted about 2,782 claims, of which 2,182 have been substantiated at a value of approximately €785 million. That is the value assigned by BAM. Approximately 1,890 of those claims have been determined by the ER with the net result being an increase in the contract sum of approximately €22.8 million. In respect of BAM submitting, by their own account, €785 million, we have arbitrated every one of them. That takes time and tenacity but that is how we are doing it. In the first instance we are going to make sure the taxpayer gets value for money. We also want the hospital completed as quickly as possible. We are not going to roll over in the contractual engagements with BAM as the Deputy seems to be suggesting.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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They have run rings around you.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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This hospital is urgently required for the children of Ireland. It will be transformative compared to what we currently have in Crumlin or Temple Street. Of that there is no doubt. There have been significant advancements on the project. The Deputy did not quote the comments from the chair of the board in respect of the current update, that all the tower cranes have been removed from the site and so on.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Those words really came out of the Tánaiste's mouth, that his Government is determined that the taxpayer will get value for money in respect of the national children's hospital. Is he serious? It has gone from €650 million up to €2.2 billion and the chair of the board cannot guarantee that it will not go higher. If you want an example of Government incompetence, then look no further than the national children's hospital. Costs are blooming, the taxpayer is paying the bill, we have delay after delay, every single target missed, and we have a Minister over there who did not meet the board once last year because he is asleep at the wheel. He thinks it is somebody else's problem. The cheques keep on being written.

Children keep on being denied the hospital they deserve. This is the problem. The Government is completely asleep at the wheel.

I will ask the Tánaiste a very simple question because the board cannot guarantee this. Will this hospital start treating patients before 2026? The Taoiseach stood there last year and started saying the Opposition was being used as a pawn and all the rest of it. This was when we were saying that the Government needed to take a hard approach with the contractor, the Minister needed to get involved in this situation and the Government needed to use its muscle. The reply was that everything was fine and that patients would be treated this year. Patients will not be treated this year. The target has moved again. The board cannot guarantee the target and the likelihood is that no patient will be treated in that hospital by 2026.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy raised an issue on the ventilation grilles, if he remembers, and claimed that tens of millions of euro would be required. It subsequently turned out not to be the case. The point I would make to the Deputy is that inadvertently, whether it is the intention or not-----

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Delays will mean it is more costly-----

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Please, allow the Tánaiste to speak without interruption.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----Sinn Féin is a pawn now of where the contractor, in my view, wants this to go.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Give over.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is what is going on here.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is not what penalty-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The contractor has been delaying and has not been resourcing the project properly or comprehensively. It is hoping there will be this kind of engagement here in Dáil Éireann to keep pressure on the Government and the politicians-----

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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We are holding you to account.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----to yield a bit quicker and give that contractor a bit more in terms of the claims it has made.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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How pathetic is that?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is playing that game.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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That is pathetic.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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All the timelines have been BAM timelines.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Through the Chair, please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am speaking through the Chair. These are not Government timelines.

A Deputy:

They are.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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They are BAM timelines.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The Government guaranteed those timelines.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In respect of the October timeline, through the Chair, that is a BAM deadline.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Even this morning, what the chair is saying is that BAM is indicating, and the Deputy said this himself-----

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Go raibh maith agat.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I think the Oireachtas should back the Government in being-----

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Back off would be more like it. That is what the Government wants. This is crazy stuff.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----resolute on this issue with the contractor and not fall for the game being played in terms of commercial strategy.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I thank the Tánaiste.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The Government is asleep at the wheel and the Tánaiste will not answer the question concerning 2026.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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Who wrote that line for the Deputy? He has used it about five times. Did someone up in your research office write it?

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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That was really pathetic.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I thank the Tánaiste. We are over time.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is-----

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Deputies, please. I am moving on. Can we listen to each other with respect?

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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I wish to ask the Tánaiste about the children's disability network teams, CDNTs. Madison Maher is seven years old. She lives on the northside of Dublin. Maddie has an autism diagnosis. She is non-verbal and has a moderate learning disability. Maddie's assessment of need was carried out when she was just three years old. Since then, she has not been offered any of the necessary supports from the CDNT. She is on a waiting list for speech and language therapy, a waiting list for occupational therapy and a waiting list for physiotherapy. She has never been offered any appointment. She has no estimated timeframe on when she will be offered an appointment. She has spent half her young life on waiting lists without getting any support. She now has severe problems with her feet and is likely to require surgery because of the complete lack of early intervention.

As the Tánaiste knows, timely intervention in these early years is of critical importance. Maddie's mother has lost all hope in the CDNT. She is at her wits' end trying to get the support her daughter needs urgently. They have been passed around and told that staff shortages are why Maddie is being left without any support. Maddie urgently needs supportive therapies and a long-term care plan. She urgently needs a further assessment to use an alternative communications device. She urgently needs to be seen by a clinical nurse specialist.

Maddie is not the only child being systematically failed by the State. There are thousands of children out there like her. Each child and family is enduring pain, trauma and almost constant anxiety. Parents who have to watch their children suffer every day are in a living hell. They know there are therapies that could transform their children's lives but they cannot access them and do not know if they will ever be able to do so. All their interactions with State agencies end in the same way, with waiting lists and broken promises. We know that more than one third of approved posts in CDNTs are not filled. This means there are more than 700 vacant positions, with some teams experiencing staff shortages of 60% and even 70%. How can any service operate with staff vacancy rates at these levels?

The Government promised that a new recruitment plan would finally start to address this crisis. In April, the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, told this House that the latest recruitment drive had concluded in January and there had been 495 applications. Nearly five months after the latest recruitment drive ended, how many of these 495 applicants have been hired? When will the CDNTs be properly staffed and resourced? When will Maddie get the interventions and supports she urgently needs?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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First, and I think Maddie is the child's name, it is not acceptable that we do not have sufficient early intervention teams in place for children at an early age. I say this because I accept the principle that early intervention makes a profound difference in a child's life and in the outcome for a child in terms of any particular need or issue that exists. The Cabinet agreed last week to accelerate an assessment of need waiting list initiative through the procurement of private assessments for families who have been waiting for a long time, with about 2,300 assessments of need being funded. There has been an additional allocation of about €11 million. This is to deal specifically with the assessment of need issue.

As the Deputy said, there has also been a substantial recruitment campaign run by the HSE in respect of the CDNTs. Some 165 new job offers have now emerged from that competition. There has been an issue in respect of recruitment more generally. This is the case notwithstanding the fact that over the last three budgets funding has been allocated for almost 800 whole-time-equivalent posts in our CDNTs across the country. We have also provided about 227 additional training places for health and social care professionals. The number of trainee posts for psychological roles has been increased to 45 annually for the next three years. We will continue to do everything we can to deal with the assessment of need issue. There was the recent decision in the High Court in this regard. We are going to have to examine this decision and the Oireachtas will have to do so too in terms of getting a system in place that will facilitate a meaningful but more timely assessment of need process for children.

Additionally, there is a need for there to be proper multidisciplinary teams with wide geographic reach to intervene and provide interventions on a continuous basis to children who require them. The assessment of need regional hubs have been rolled out across the country and are now operational. They are undertaking assessment of needs assessments. The Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte has met with the heads of disability services in the nine CHOs monthly to monitor and discuss the progress being made in tackling the overall assessment of need backlog issue. Of course, disability services has a derogation in respect of recruitment and so on. There is no issue there. In the short term, to answer the Deputy's question, we made this additional allocation last week from the Cabinet of €11 million to accelerate assessments of need for up to 2,300 children and maybe close to 2,500 children.

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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I was not asking the Tánaiste about assessments of need.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy did.

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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I was giving the Tánaiste the specific example of a child who was assessed, referred to a CDNT and has been waiting for half her life and got no supports and none of the services or therapies she needs. She is now in severe difficulty as a result. I ask if the Tánaiste can answer this question. He has said 165 job offers have been made.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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This is out of 800 additional posts that he said were approved. With 700 existing vacancies, 165 job offers are not going to cut it. Maddie has waited half her life for the supports she urgently needs. She is suffering as a result of the lack of intervention. She is now likely to need surgery as a result. She cannot afford to wait any longer. Thousands of children are in the same situation and being referred to CDNTs that seem to not exist and promised services that fail to materialise. When are these children going to get the supports they need? When are these empty posts going to be filled? What are the CDNTs going to be properly resourced?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I did say earlier, as the Deputy himself referenced, there is a very significant recruitment campaign, which so far as resulted in 165 new job offers for CDNT teams.

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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There are 700 vacant posts.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is so far, and the HSE is going to repeat the recruitment campaign with a view to offering more positions in this area, to ultimately properly resource the CDNT teams. I also believe we need to look at it from a human resources management perspective to make sure that people recruited into the CDNT teams have an environment that is conducive, which incentivises them and makes for a sustainable career pathway into the future.

There has been an issue with the multidisciplinary teams in terms of attracting various social and healthcare staff into the CDNT teams, perhaps in some cases because of the burden of the workload and so on. I have met with people myself, including providers, on this specific issue. Recruitment is a key part of it but also, once we recruit we must ensure that the quality of the working environment is such that we retain staff and give them career pathways into the future.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I do not know whether the Tánaiste wants to answer this question. It is about whether he does the shopping in his house. Does he go to the grocery and fill his trolley with all the food that is required for the week? If he does, has he noticed how steeply the prices have risen for ordinary grocery products in the last year? They say there is no inflation in 2024, or at least that it has dropped severely but the price of basic foodstuffs is still rising. As of April 2024, the cost of potatoes increased by 17.3%, rice by 10.6%, olive oil by 23.5%, and frozen vegetables by 10.7%. That list of goodies really equals what a normal, average and low-paid household would include in its shopping; the basic foodstuffs. There is no caviar or fresh crabmeat, just ordinary foodstuffs that families depends on. If the Tánaiste has not noticed, I certainly have, because every time I go shopping I look for the receipt to compare prices over a period. I know from talking to neighbours and people in my area that the cost of foodstuffs is crippling them.

The Barnardos survey that was published clearly backs that up. More than one in four parents did not have enough food to feed their children at some point in the last year. That is up from one in five in 2022. One in five say they are regularly unable to afford a main meal, a dinner, for their children and family. Almost half of parents said that they worry about having enough food for their children. What a disgraceful statistic in one of the richest countries in the world. Why is it happening? It is happening for a number of reasons. One is that when inflation in the past three years has been at 20% and still rising, in particular on foodstuffs, but incomes have not risen to that degree. Incomes are not even near it: they have increased by 7% on average, whether one is working or on social protection. That amounts to a real cut in income of 13% for ordinary households who spend more of their income, on average, on groceries than the likes of the Tánaiste and I do because we have a much higher income than them.

The other issue is profits, which are soaring. An ECB report said that profit margin increases contributed hugely to the cost-of-living increases. When we look at the operating profits of Tesco, for example, a shop well known for its inflated prices on ordinary groceries, they were €120 million plus for 2023. SuperValu saw an increase in turnover to €4.7 billion during 2022 and profit margins at Musgraves also increased. Then we have the banks. AIB had an exception profit margin of €2 billion. The ESB's profits rose to €868 million.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I thank the Deputy.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I cannot square that circle. I am against capitalism. I am an anti-capitalist. I am for a more egalitarian system. The Tánaiste is pro-capitalist. He eulogises it all the time.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Deputy Smith is way over time.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Can he please square that circle for me?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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First, I do not eulogise capitalism. The Deputy says she is for a different system but she probably should be a bit more transparent. She believes in a 100% socialist economic model, which I do not think would have created the full employment that we have in this country today. I point to her approach to multinational companies. Yesterday, she said we should boycott Hewlett-Packard, and from the comments she made, by implication, Intel as well. There are thousands of people working in those companies in this country. They need to work to meet the cost of living and to provide for their families. I respectfully suggest, through the Chair, that the economic model the Deputy presents is one that would undermine the capacity of many families in this country to provide for their children and their families, because it would suck investment out of the country and would not enable us to have the reserves we have to distribute funding to those who most need it.

In our household, I do a bit of the shopping. I do not do the full shopping. I go once a week to the market. I get the porridge and the fruit. The costs have increased. By the way, my tastes are not everybody's tastes.

The costs have increased but through the budget we have worked very hard to try to deal with the cost of living because there was a big increase in inflation in the last two years. It started with the war in Ukraine and the rebound from Covid. That has hit people hard. Energy prices and food prices went up significantly. We are very conscious of that and that is why budget 2024 provided a €12 increase in weekly social welfare and pension rates. There were increased thresholds for the working family payment so that more families could qualify. Child benefit was extended to 18-year-olds in full-time education. A free book scheme was introduced for junior cycle students. We now have free book schemes for all primary kids and secondary students up to junior certificate. We hope to extend it. The hot school meals initiative as well has been very extensively expanded. The reduction in fees for school transport services has been extended for a further year. We introduced a reduction of €1,000 in fees and increased grants for third-level students. Fees were waived for students sitting State exams. The list goes on. There was a further reduction of 25% in childcare costs. More than half the population is now entitled to free GP care. We abolished hospital inpatient charges also, as well as other charges. We reduced the threshold in respect of the drug payments scheme. We brought in a rent tax credit. An unprecedented number of measures have been taken to try to ease the undoubted increase in costs that people have experienced. The Barnardos report does indicate that the SILC data of 2023 showed an overall decrease in consistent poverty from 4.9% in 2022 to 3.6% in 2023.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I thank the Tánaiste.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We need to do more.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I deliberately focused on the cost of groceries because my argument is that food inflation is crippling people. The Barnardos report shows that. Social Justice Ireland has shown that more than 500,000 people in this country are living in poverty, of which 180,000 are children. I am asking the Tánaiste what he is going to do about the rising cost of food. He can go shopping in some market and buy his porridge and fruit but most people rely on Tesco, Aldi and Lidl, where food inflation is still rising and there is no sign of it stopping.

We introduced a Bill to bring in price controls on both energy and food. The Bill will not see the light of day because of the ethos of the Government, which will not interfere with a market at a time when profits are going through the roof, poverty levels are increasing and the divide in society is increasing. The 1% at the top are getting much richer. For example, the earnings last year of the Irish CEO of Tesco, a man called Murphy, were 417 times that of the average Tesco worker at €1.9 million.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I thank the Deputy. I call on the Tánaiste to respond.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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That is the sort of country we live in – one where parents let their kids go to bed hungry – and the sort of country that they face. What is the Tánaiste going to do about it to address that problem?

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I call on the Tánaiste to respond.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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First, the Deputy is not the only one who goes to the various shops she mentions. She should not create the impression that she is the only person in this House who goes to Tesco. I have been in Tesco. I have been in SuperValu.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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He has been in Tesco.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I do not care where the Tánaiste was.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Through the Chair, the Deputy made a snide comment. She does not have a monopoly on these things. That is the only point I make. I go to a local market.

I mentioned local markets because I thought she would be agreeable that we should look after local producers.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Tánaiste is being very defensive. Will he answer my question? No.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have no problem buying eggs from the local person who produces them in Ballycotton. That is supporting local people in our communities who are doing an extra bit of work like that and keeping the local economy working as best we can.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am sure that will be a great comfort to the parents of the kids who go hungry every day.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have acknowledged the increase in food prices, as well as the cost of energy. That is why we did some unprecedented stuff in respect of giving people money back to try to deal with the undoubted increase in the cost of living. That is why the €400 lump-sum, once-off working family payments were made to 45,000 families with 97,000 children. A total of 409,000 households got a €300 fuel allowance lump sum. There was a lump-sum payment of €100 per child to families in respect of 370,000 qualified children. We gave a double child benefit payment for 1.2 million children.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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We are over time.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should acknowledge that.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I asked about food inflation.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Táimid ag bogadh ar aghaidh go dtí an chéad cheist eile.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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No one was surprised by the failures of the Government's housing policy that were laid out in last week's report from the Housing Commission. I see those failures every day in my constituency office when I meet people struggling to pay rent or find a home, stuck on housing lists for 16 to 18 years and stuck in homelessness. The desperation out there is a direct result of the housing policies implemented by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, supported by the Labour Party and the Green Party, for decades. We are not just talking about ten years, as the Minister said earlier; we are talking about 50 years of failed policy. The report calls for an increase in our social housing stock to 20% of all housing. We used to have more than 20% of our stock made up of social housing. We built tens of thousands of homes when this country was practically broke. The report calls for a return to what we had before the parties of government decided to turn our housing policy into a failed policy to allow the big banks and developers to make profit instead of providing homes for ordinary people.

Nowhere is this failure clearer than in the rental sector. Average rents more than doubled between 2012 and 2022. I assure the Tánaiste that wages did not double in that time. The Government stood by and allowed rents to eat more and more into people's pay packets and their standard of living. What did they get for paying rent of up to €2,500 or more per month? They got a rental sector in which housing standards are not properly inspected, rent controls that, according even to the Housing Commission, are not properly enforced, a clear lack of security of tenure in which people fulfil all their obligations as a tenant and can still be turfed out, and a serious lack of protections from illegal evictions, which have become endemic.

The Housing Commission has clear recommendations for the rental sector. I will focus on one of them, that is, facilitating sales of rental properties with tenants in situ. The report states in section 6:

To facilitate sales with tenants in situ, the rent regulations need to be reformed as rental valuations will be an important component in valuing the overall selling price of a property. In addition, mortgages for the purchase of private rented dwellings would need to allow purchases with the tenant in situ.

This is a clear solution to one of the biggest problems facing renters, namely, the lack of security of tenure, and it would go a long way to ending no-fault evictions and securing renters in their homes. Such an arrangement is standard for commercial property. If it is good enough for businesses, it should be good enough for people's homes. I go further and say there should never be evictions because of the sale of a property. That is in my party's housing policy. Will the Government follow the recommendation of the Housing Commission and facilitate sales of rental properties with tenants in situ?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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First, we have a very extensive tenant in situ programme. It has been very effective.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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Not according to the commission.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, introduced it approximately two years ago. It has been very successful and effective in preventing evictions by giving the option of going to the seller and saying the council will buy the house, thereby enabling the person living there to continue as a tenant of the council. It has been very effective, with up to 1,800 approvals so far. I will get the most up-to-date figure.

The Government appointed the Housing Commission and tasked it with examining long-term housing policy. Of its 83 recommendations, 65 at varying stages of implementation, with some more advanced than others. Comprehensive consideration is being given to the recommendations. I am not sure whether the Deputy agrees with the commission's recommendations in respect of the rental market in terms of possibly changing the rent pressure zones, RPZs, and moving to a different system of reference areas. There would be some complexity to that but we will examine it. The Government, working with many in the Oireachtas, pushed for the RPZ system, which the Housing Commission has described as reactive. The political system, not just the Government, has been very anxious to intervene in the rental market on an ongoing basis. On a preliminary reading, it seems to me the Housing Commission is reflecting on that and suggesting the Oireachtas should maybe be less reactive. That is a debate we will have in the House.

Whereas everyone has focused on the highlight opening chapter of the Housing Commission's report, there has been precious little confirmation from anyone in the House as to whether they agree specifically with aspects of the report, particularly in respect of the rental market. I would be interested in parties opposite coming forward with substantive views on the substance of some of the recommendations, particularly in terms of the rental market.

Regarding a social housing Act, for example, that is not something that will happen overnight. We would have to examine again in detail what is envisaged. There was a comprehensive report. My understanding is that the Housing Commission does not believe local authority housing tenants should have a right of tenant purchase. The reason it has advanced for its position is that it wants to increase forever the provision of housing stock by local authorities. Under the current system, approximately 50% of social housing new builds are built by approved social housing bodies that do not allow for tenant purchase. I am not clear whether there is consensus within the Oireachtas that tenant purchase should be ruled out completely. We will examine that. I am sure there are nuances within the report and within the commission. It deserves comprehensive examination.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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I thank the Tánaiste for his reply but it does not answer my question. The situation in Ireland is that 5,000 people have entered emergency accommodation since the ban on no-fault evictions was lifted last year. Terminations of tenancies rose by 20% after the ban was lifted, with more than 19,000 households issued with eviction notices last year. We have record homelessness. More than 100 families became homeless in the last three months of 2023 due to no-fault evictions. In the case of 63% of eviction notices last year, the reason given was sale of the property. Focus Ireland has called this the evict-to-sell crisis.

The Housing Commission is making the point that people should not be forced to leave a tenancy for reason of sale of the home, as is the case with commercial businesses. I have seen apartments above businesses sell with the tenant in situ. I am asking whether the Government supports the commission's view that there should be no no-fault evictions for people who are paying their rent and keeping the house up to standard when landlords decide they want to sell and get rid of their tenants. That has to change and that is what the Housing Commission is referring to. That is my question.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not think the commission is recommending no-fault evictions.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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It is recommending stopping them.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is not what it says in the report. One of its recommendations is:

Regulate market rents fairly and effectively by reforming the current system of rent regulation and establishing a system of ‘Reference Rents’. This reform should be informed by evidence-based reviews on the impact of regulated market rents on rented housing supply, accessibility and affordability. Such reviews should be conducted on a regular basis...

Another recommendation is to "[r]eform and consolidate standards for rented dwellings through... single, nationwide dwelling standards..." That is fine. The report further recommends amending the standards for rental accommodation in private and cost-rental homes, regulating the landlord functions of local authority-owned dwellings and formalising local authority-tenant relations. The implementation of reforms to ensure a more effective enforcement model is also recommended. That is all fine.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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My reference was to a specific recommendation in section 6.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, and I have gone through the recommendations for the rental sector. I do not see any reference to a ban on no-fault evictions.

It seems that the commission wants a significant reform of the existing rental market regulation. That will take significant work. Meanwhile, the Government is absolutely committed to the tenantin situscheme, as we have demonstrated by buying houses where people are at risk of eviction. We tell the council to buy the house and keep the person in the house.