Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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63. To ask the Minister for Housing, Planning, and Local Government if the Government is considering revising the defective block redress scheme given the issues that are emerging with the scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24413/24]

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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66. To ask the Minister for Housing, Planning, and Local Government if, given recent committee meetings, the Government is considering revisiting and altering its defective block redress scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24401/24]

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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My colleague, Deputy Doherty, and I submitted a number of questions. I am representing us both, with the assistance and co-operation of the House. For three weeks, the finance and housing committees probed the enhanced defective concrete block scheme. It is clear there are gaping holes in the scheme both in its accessibility for applicants and the science that underpins it. What is the Government’s response? What changes will it make?

Malcolm Noonan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Green Party)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh na daltaí agus na múinteoirí ó Ghaelscoil Osraí, Contae Chill Chainnigh.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 63 and 66 together.

As the Deputy is aware, the Minister, Deputy O’Brien, commenced the Remediation of Dwellings Damaged by the Use of Defective Concrete Blocks Act 2022 on 22 June 2023. It contains the enhanced grant scheme and adopted the related regulations on 29 June 2023.

The enhanced grant scheme was legislated for following extensive consultation with all relevant stakeholders. At the time of the scheme launch, the Minister established an implementation steering group composed of officials from the relevant local authorities, our Department, the Housing Agency and the homeowner's liaison officer. The group has met several times in recent months and will keep the operation of the regulations and guidelines under review.

In addition, a subgroup of this group met in January and April of this year focusing on the financial aspects of the scheme and following these meetings, our Department has issued updated guidance to local authorities that will enable eligible applicants to have earlier access to grant funding for certain eligible works.

It should be noted that arising from the Government's decision of 30 November 2021 in respect of the enhanced defective concrete blocks grant scheme, the National Standards Authority of Ireland, NSAI, was tasked with delivering a programme of work to address a number of technical items. The NSAI is Ireland's official standards body and is an autonomous body under the aegis of the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. I understand it is working on drafting interim guidance that will take the form of an amendment to IS 465 to enhance the sampling and testing protocols within the standard, taking account of all available findings to date, including the initial research output relating to internal sulphate attack. The NSAI has confirmed the amendment will serve as a step forward in the review and development process of IS 465, noting that full evaluation of IS 465 continues to be reliant on the delivery of the final outputs of key research projects.

Following the publication of any revised standard produced by the NSAI, the Act mandates that the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage shall commence a review of the operation of the Act within three months of the completion of the review of the standard. The Act also allows for the grant rates and overall grant scheme cap to be reviewed on an annual basis and this will, if deemed appropriate, be considered in due course. The Department recently received an updated cost report from the Society of Chartered Surveyors in Ireland which will inform this ongoing process. Furthermore, section 51 of the Act mandates a review of the operation of the Act to take place within three years of the Act's commencement, which is before July 2026.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I do not know whether the Minister of State has had a chance to review the transcript of the committee meetings but if he did, he would been disturbed at what emerged. It is very clear, and the testimony from Engineers Ireland was very concerning, that IS 465, which is the standard that underpins a multibillion euro redress scheme, the biggest redress scheme in the history of the State, is not fit for purpose.

We have a situation where the engineers making recommendations on behalf of homeowners, these engineers having been trained in the standard and affiliated to Engineers Ireland, are being overruled by engineers in the Housing Agency on what to do to remediate homes. The scheme is based on a desktop study. It is not based on actual peer-researched science. This science is emerging that the cause is not mica but pyrrhotite and internal sulphate attack. This means a very different remediation approach is needed. It is taking too long for the Government to respond to this reality and homeowners have no confidence.

Malcolm Noonan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Green Party)
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On the NSAI review of IS 465, the ongoing work is autonomous. An interagency defective concrete block technical matters steering group was established to inform and guide the NSAI review of a number of relevant standards, including IS 465, and the impact, if any, on foundations and the effect, if any, on full cavity-fill insulation on homes susceptible to defective block work. This work has been detailed and the NSAI has been very strong in its focus. The NSAI is Ireland's official standards body and it is autonomous under the aegis of the Minister for Enterprise, trade and Employment.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Another major issue is that the scheme is a grant scheme. For the second time, it is grant scheme and not a redress scheme, which is what was provided for the more than 3,000 families in Dublin and north Leinster who were the victims of pyrite. From the committee meetings and the public meetings in Donegal and Mayo, which were attended by more than 2,000 people in total in Donegal and by 500 or 600 people in Mayo, it is clear that the scheme is not accessible to most families. I am hearing of quotes where the gap is between €60,000 and €120,000 or €230,000. How do people find this type of finance when they are in their late 50s, 60s or 70s, as a very large percentage of these people are? The scheme cannot work for people. They could be living in houses that are literally falling apart but they cannot access the scheme. If people can access tens of thousands of euro, the scheme can work for them but what if they cannot? It is desperately cruel. The evidence is overwhelming now. The science is based on a desktop study and nobody believes in it. The scheme cannot be accessed by most families. Surely the Department needs to radically review it. We argue that a 100% redress scheme is required and not a grant scheme.

Malcolm Noonan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Green Party)
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There is rigour and detailed scientific analysis attached to the process adopted by the NSAI. As I stated, the review mechanism was put in place within a year of the Act and the process is ongoing. There is also a process for a three-year review. Deputy Mac Lochlainn is correct that it is grant scheme but it is very much enhanced from the previous 2020 grant scheme, with a 100% grant, subject to an overall maximum of €420,000.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is not 100%. The Minister of State should not say that. It is deeply offensive to families.

Malcolm Noonan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Green Party)
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That is what it is. There is a revised application process that removes the financial barrier to scheme entry. All of these are in place. There is provision for alternative accommodation costs. A Government guarantee is provided with regard to remediation works, other than the full demolition and rebuild, through eligibility for a second grant, if required, for a period of up to 40 years. It is a strong scheme and the review mechanism is in place.