Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 1:

In page 7, line 10, after “manner;” to insert “to provide for post-recovery analysis of recovered human remains;”.

I will speak to amendments Nos. 1, 22, 24, 25 and 42 to 44, inclusive, together.

Amendments Nos. 2, 24, and 25 are identical to those tabled by Deputies Funchion and Ward on Committee Stage. I agreed to consider changes to the Long Title to explore the relevant part of the director's functions and to consider whether the description of the post-recovery analysis report could make an explicit reference to the matter of evidence of a violent or unnatural death being shared with An Garda Síochána and the coroner. I have tabled amendment No. 1 in response to the issues the Deputies raised. Amendment No. 1 incorporates an explicit reference to post-recovery analysis in the Long Title, highlighting the significance of that part of the intervention. While the reference does not explicitly refer to the cause and circumstances of a death, this is because the matter is explicitly encompassed within the definition of post-recovery analysis. The definition in the body of the legislation places a clear obligation on the director to identify the causes and circumstances of death where possible as part of the post-recovery analysis.

Amendments Nos. 42, 43 and 44 provide that the director's post-recovery analysis report must document whether notifications of evidence of violent or unnatural death, or deaths of persons who were not resident at the institution concerned, have been made to An Garda Síochána and the coroner. I also considered whether it would be possible to amend the director's functions to include an explicit reference to identifying the circumstances and cause of death. However, the Office of Parliamentary Counsel advises that this is not possible from a drafting perspective as the term "post-recovery analysis" and the specific function to which this reference would need to be added is a defined term and part of the meaning should not be incorporated after using the term itself. I can clarify that the definition of post-recovery analysis in section 35(2) makes it clear that the post-recovery analysis includes establishing the circumstances and cause of death if possible. In other words, this is already covered in the director's functions, which were amended in response to the pre-legislative scrutiny process. I hope this goes a significant way to dealing with the issues Deputies Funchion and Ward raised on Committee Stage.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 3:

In page 9, line 14, to delete “niece or nephew” and substitute “niece or nephew (whether of the whole blood or the half-blood), grandniece or grandnephew”.

Deputies will be aware that I significantly expanded the list of family members who can participate in a DNA identification programme from the list set out in the original general scheme. The published Bill took account of the pre-legislative scrutiny, PLS, recommendations and provided for participation by a child, parent, sibling, half-sibling, grandparent, grandchild, aunt, uncle, niece or nephew of a person who is buried in the intervention site. I indicated on Committee Stage, in response to an amendment proposed by Deputy Canney, which we were not able to discuss on the day, that I would look at what he and Deputy Tóibín had brought forward. On foot of that, I have tabled amendment No. 3, to consider expanding the range of relatives who can participate in a DNA identification programme to include grandnieces or grandnephews. Amendments Nos. 3, 47 and 54, which is the set of amendments I am speaking to, provide for the expansion of eligible family members, to include half-nieces, half-nephews, grandnieces and grandnephews.

We engaged with Forensic Science Ireland. All our decisions about what family members can participate in the DNA programme are based on the scientific ability to get usable samples of DNA. As people become more distant relations, the amount of usable DNA will decrease. It is solely on that basis that we have made calls. It splits each time, from 50% to 25% then to 12.5%. We engaged with Forensic Science Ireland and it stated there is a scientific justification for the inclusion of half-nieces and half-nephews as well as grandnieces and grandnephews. The technology that Forensic Science Ireland will invest in to detect second order relatives is also capable of identifying this group of relatives, so I believe it is prudent to expand the list of family members in line with the scientific advice. I hope we will be seen to have been taking on board the points made by Deputies. I think Deputy Canney's original amendment included cousins too. That is a different situation because one is going down a different line of the family, so the amount of DNA is lower than with direct family. We were told by Forensic Science Ireland that the amount in cousins would probably be too small to undertake a successful DNA analysis. On foot of Deputy Canney's amendment, we are expanding it to include half-nieces, half-nephews, grandnieces and grandnephews.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Yes.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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It used to go as far as niece and nephew and stop there. Now it also includes nieces and nephews and clarifies that it applies whether they are of half-blood or full-blood, because the percentages are the same. It also includes grandnieces and grandnephews, a category which was not included before. I take on board what Deputy Canney is saying.

There are people who are at the relationship of cousins from a potential child who is buried in the Tuam site, for example, who are deeply concerned and want this ability. I am not going to be able to make a legislative change on it today. There will be an implementation group set up overseeing the application of this Act and we will also be reviewing the Act. There will be an opportunity then, especially if we have seen that advance in science, in respect of maybe making a change at that stage. Of course, people can get their own DNA taken and undertake a process to preserve that as well. We can give DNA at any point in our lives. The key concern for me right now is that the experts say there is not a capacity to link, with the degree of certainty we would need, a person who is at a cousin's remove from a child who is buried in this site. I do have to take that guidance. Where I have seen that it could be widened to usable effect I have done that.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 4:

In page 10, between lines 26 and 27, to insert the following: “ “Oversight Committee” means the DNA Database System Oversight Committee;”.

On Committee Stage I signalled my intention to bring forward new provisions on Report Stage to provide a legislative basis for an oversight committee to perform an assurance role in respect of historic databases established under the Bill. Given the sensitive data to be processed and the risks associated with any potential breach, it is prudent to provide for a specific oversight structure with reference to the DNA analysis that will be carried out under this Act. I believe the provisions will strengthen the legislation and its operation.

Amendments Nos. 4, 55, 56, 63 and 64 provide for an oversight committee to perform this assurance role. The DNA database system oversight committee was established under the Criminal Justice (Forensic Evidence and DNA Database System) Act 2014. The amendments provide that where the function of a director includes carrying out the identification programme and where that programme is continuing, the relevant Minister will, with the prior consent of the Minister for Justice, direct the oversight committee to oversee the management and operation of the databases established under the Act for the purposes of maintaining the integrity and security of the database. To simplify, there is an existing structure put in place for the monitoring of DNA databases recognising the acutely sensitive nature of that information. We are looking to ensure the databases for DNA that will be constructed in seeking to link relatives to children or remains found in these sites will be overseen in the context of the existing structures that are working and operating well. We have had significant engagement with the chairperson of the existing DNA database oversight committee.

Where the committee is performing its function, it will meet as the historic remains databases oversight committee. The amendments recognise that this is a distinct and temporary function which is best managed in a distinct and stand-alone way by the committee. They set out the functions of the committee in this regard as well as the arrangements for remuneration, expenses and secretarial support. The committee can review any matter related to the operation of the DNA databases and prepare a report on the review which will be laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas and published. The committee will prepare a final report within six months of the conclusion of the identification programme and provide a copy to the relevant Minister, the Minister for Justice and the director. The relevant Minister must then lay the report before the Oireachtas and publish it.

Amendments Nos. 37 and 39 are consequential amendments regarding the disclosure of confidential information. They specify that members of the oversight committee as well as contractors, consultants or advisers the committee has engaged cannot disclose confidential information at any time unless required or permitted by law or duly authorised in writing to do so by the oversight committee. Amendments Nos. 33 and 36 clarify that confidential information obtained by a specified person or members of staff of Forensic Science Ireland, FSI, shall not be disclosed at any time and not just while performing functions under the Act, unless such disclosures are required or permitted by law or authorised in writing by a director or the director for FSI. These technical amendments reflect the wording used in amendment No. 37 in respect of disclosure of confidential information by members of the oversight committee.

Amendment No. 73 is a further consequential amendment that provides for the oversight committee's functions to be performed by a suitably qualified person in situations where regulations are made to allow for further forensic testing in circumstances where there are developments in forensic testing after an identification programme is completed and the office of a director is dissolved.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 5:

In page 10, line 36, to delete “ordinarily”.

This set of amendments is being brought in in response to amendments proposed by Deputy Cairns on Committee Stage that sought to delete the word "ordinarily" from the phrase "ordinarily resident at the institution" in the context of defining principal burial land. I understood the Deputy proposed the amendment because she was concerned that the term "ordinarily" could restrict the people whose remains would be covered by the legislation by implying that an individual was resident for a prolonged period. I clarified the intention that "ordinarily resident" would include a person who was a resident for even one night in an institution but indicated that the necessity of the term could be considered. We engaged with the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel which indicated that "ordinarily" was not necessary. It is hoped this is of assistance in terms of providing further reassurance and having it on the record that, subsequent to this amendment, someone who was resident for one night in one of these institutions will be covered. It was the case previously but to provide reassurance, we are deleting the term "ordinarily" in those three locations.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Amendments similar to amendments Nos. 6, 11 and 45 were discussed on Committee Stage. For the reasons I outlined then, I am not in a position to accept those under discussion. The purpose of this legislation is to provide for the excavation, recovery, analysis, identification and dignified reinterment of human remains buried in a manifestly inappropriate manner. This is the legislative gap that the Bill seeks to address so interventions can take place, initially at Tuam and subsequently at any other site should a similar set of circumstances come to light.

Amendments Nos. 6 and 11 seek to alter the definition of principal burial land and the conditions for making a Government order so that an intervention can take place that does not relate to burials that are inappropriate but, rather, to burials of persons whose deaths may have occurred in a violent or unnatural manner or suddenly and of unknown causes. As I outlined previously, this approach would fundamentally alter the scope of the Bill and would ultimately change the underlying objective of the legislation.

I disagree with Deputy Whitmore in that I believe these amendments would represent strong interference with the jurisdiction of both An Garda Síochána and the coroner. After the pre-legislative scrutiny, I took significant action to ensure the jurisdiction of the coroner would be maintained. That had been asked of the Government through the pre-legislative scrutiny process and directly of me by survivors I met. We were able to secure that. Any intervention or investigation in respect of violent or unnatural death should clearly come under the remit of the Garda or the coroner. This is why the Bill rightly provides upfront that an order may not be made if an investigation or inquest is already under way and the Garda Commissioner is of the view that it would be premature to make an order for intervention pending the outcome of the investigation. Similarly, the Bill rightly provides that where an intervention under this legislation is under way, a director of the agency must notify An Garda Síochána and the coroner of any evidence of a violent or unnatural death that comes to light during the intervention and then follow their directions. Moreover, it is unclear how, within this specific legislation, it would be established prior to an intervention that a death occurred in a violent, unnatural, sudden and unknown manner. This legislation seeks to complement existing law, including the Coroners Act. It is not seeking to replace it. By way of a major change to the general scheme, I have removed all restrictions on the jurisdiction of the coroner. Under the legislation, the director will have to try to identify the circumstances and causes of death of recovered remains and, if evidence of violent or natural death emerges, notify the coroner and An Garda Síochána immediately.

Deputy Funchion's amendment, No. 45, is related to changing the description of the type of death that must be notified to the coroner and a member An Garda Síochána. As I outlined on Committee Stage, the current wording, namely, “violent or unnatural”, would cover any suspicious death where there is potential evidence of same, including homicide. It is necessary to keep the wording aligned with the basis of exhumation in the Coroners Act. More broadly, the director will publish a full post-recovery analysis report in respect of all recovered remains, which will include the cause and circumstances of death where it is possible to identify them. The director will ensure it is brought to the attention of the relevant coroner. Amendments Nos. 42 and 44, which were discussed under the first grouping, will ensure that the post-recovery analysis report will document whether notifications of evidence of violent or unnatural death have been made to An Garda and the coroner. It is for those reasons that I am not in a position to support these amendments.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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This Bill has been introduced to address the legal circumstances we are facing, whereby at one identified site, Tuam, we are unable under the current legislation to intervene. This Bill gives us the opportunity to do so. It places a mandate on us to intervene and to do so to an incredibly high standard in light of the international forensic standards that apply in the context of excavation, recovery, identification and the obligation on the director to attempt to identify the cause of death and inform the relevant bodies, such as An Garda Síochána and the coroner. It also establishes a very important obligation in respect of the identification programme, so we can reunite family members who are still alive with the remains of their loved ones, which remains were so inappropriately treated.

This Bill is a major advance but it is not restricted to Tuam. We made the determination not to restrict it to Tuam. It is legislation that can be used at other sites. We put forward provisions for reviewing the operation of this Bill. My fundamental belief in this regard is contrary to that of Deputy Whitmore. She suggests that the Bill limits or somehow interferes with our ability to examine activities, actions and the treatment of children in the institutions in the past.

I believe this Bill is essential to allowing us to intervene. This is the legislative device that will finally allow us to intervene in Tuam 80 years after the suspicion of the burials there, which were identified by Catherine Corless five years after what happened there was finally confirmed by the initial investigations by the commission. It is for that reason that I believe this Bill is worthy of support.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 7:

In page 12, lines 32 and 33, to delete “A notice or other document that is required to be served on or given to a person under this Act” and substitute the following: “Subject to subsection (3), a notice or other document that is required or authorised by or under this Act to be served on or given to a person”.

On Committee Stage, I signalled my intention to bring forward an amendment to section 4 to provide for the service of notices and other documents on owners and occupiers of land or premises where the name of the owner or occupier of the land or premises cannot be ascertained. Amendments Nos. 7 and 8 provide that where owners and-or occupiers of land cannot be ascertained by reasonable inquiry and notice, or other documents are to be served on or given to the owner or occupier of land under this Bill, it may be addressed to the owner or the occupier without naming him or her.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 8:

In page 13, between lines 13 and 14, to insert the following: “(3) Where a notice or other document is required or authorised by or under this Act to be served on or given to the owner or occupier of land and the name of the owner or of the occupier cannot be ascertained by reasonable inquiry, it may be addressed to “the owner” or “the occupier”, as the case may require, without naming him, her or it.”.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 10:

In page 14, line 28, to delete “ordinarily”.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 13:

In page 14, line 32, to delete “20 meters” and substitute “10 metres”.

I recognise that the issue that is being addressed here in terms of how close to a residential house on land an excavation can take place was an issue we debated significantly in the original pre-legislative scrutiny, given a residential house was entirely excluded in the Bill as brought forward. We brought that to 20 m but as concerns were raised by Deputies Funchion and Cairns, we have brought that to 10 m within the curtilage of the house, which I think strikes a fair balance. I thank the Deputies for their input.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I do not think I will be able to assist Deputy Collins as this legislation solely deals with burials relating to institutions such as mother and baby homes and county homes. Perhaps engagement with the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage and his Department would be best. I am unable to help in terms of what this legislation, which is very specific, is about.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I am not in a position to support the amendments put forward by the Deputies for the same reasons I outlined on Committee Stage. It is important to recognise that excavation is not a desired option in every circumstance. I have met families and survivors and I am deeply aware that, for some family members, the graves of their loved ones, the site-----

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I was not specifically referring to-----

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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A number of contributions were made. I have met many families and survivors and, as I said, some of them regard these sites as a grave site and do not wish to see them disturbed at this stage. They would see it as a violation of the sanctity of the remains of their loved ones. In some circumstances, and I acknowledge that on certain sites the preferences are different among survivors, but in some circumstances the preference is a memorial recognising and marking the burial site. This legislation, which as we know is not site specific, has to be sufficiently flexible to allow Government to take account of different circumstances and differing views which may arise in the future. I have considered the pre-legislative scrutiny recommendations on this specific issue, and in light of these, the provision in the legislation has been amended to specify the Government must have substantive reasons to form the view that memorialisation of the burials on the land without further intervention is the more appropriate route to take. This provision is not designed to allow the Government to refrain from intervention. The Government will have to set out clearly the reasons for choosing memorialisation, and the rationale has to be sufficient with reference to some technical difficulties that would be such as to justify adequately the decision not to make an order.

In regard to amendments Nos. 15 and 16, section 7 specifies that the Government may establish the office for a specific period to allow it intervene at a site associated with an institution that contains manifestly inappropriate burials. To help ensure the office's effective operation and to adjust to the evolving situation at a particular site, the relevant Minister may need to alter the functions of the director. As such those proposals would need to be approved by Government.

I reiterate that the provision is not designed to prevent the director from undertaking a certain activity. In fact, any such proposal is based on information provided by the director himself or herself, which must be taken into account by the Minister. The provision. in effect, allows for adapting the work of the office in line with a request from the director. This in turn reflects the reality that, at the outset of an intervention, there is likely to be a high degree of uncertainty as to what the director and his or her office will encounter. If the provisions were removed as suggested the director may be legally required to perform a function that cannot in reality be implemented. For example, it is possible that the function of an identification programme is assigned to the director at the outset, but if there were no living relatives willing to come forward to participate in that programme, that programme would have no function. In this case an identification programme might no longer be feasible. However, if we had not the capacity to amend the range of functions that could take place, the director would still be legally obliged to undertake the DNA identification programme, even if it was no longer practically feasible to do.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I will set out the full section as it is useful for understanding the position here. This is deciding on the issue of manifestly inappropriate burials:

The matters referred to in section 7(3)(a)(ii)are whether, in relation to the burials concerned, the human remains— (a) are uncoffined,

(b) are buried in such a manner that they would not have complied with the requirements, at the time of such burial, specified in the Burial Grounds Regulations,

(c) are buried in a way that would not reasonably be considered to provide a dignified interment, or

(d) are buried collectively and in a manner or in a location that is repugnant to common decency and would reasonably have been so considered at the time the burials took place.

Those are the criteria under which that important determination of "manifestly inappropriate" is determined. Amendment No. 17 seeks to remove the phrase "at the time of such burial" from section 8(1)(b) of the legislation. In doing so it would undermine one of the criteria used to assess whether there were manifestly inappropriate burials at a burial site. It is important that the assessment of burials relates to the time when such burials took place and the agreed custom, practice and requirements of that time.

It is difficult to justify assessing burials with reference to requirements that were not applicable or perhaps did not exist at the time of such burials. Burial ground regulations have changed since 1922, which is the start of the period to which this legislation is applicable.

Amendment No. 18 aims to delete all words from and including "and" in line 12 down to and including "place" in line 13 from section 8(1)(d). One of the criteria that the Government must try to assess before deciding whether a burial site associated with an institution has manifestly inappropriate burials is whether most people at the time of the burials would have found the burial at a site, such as Tuam, acceptable. Without the phrase, "and would reasonably have been so considered at the time the burials took place", it is much more difficult to interpret what "repugnant to common decency" means. I do not believe we should undermine the rigour of the legislation by reducing clarity on this important and sensitive criterion. To do so would undermine what we are seeking to achieve here.

Everybody in this House agrees that the manner in which the remains of children were interred in the chambers at Tuam was and is not acceptable. That is patently clear. However, future circumstances cannot be ruled out in which the interpretation of "common decency" is more specific to the time when burials took place. The phrases the Deputies wish to have deleted support the clear interpretation of the respective criteria that define "manifestly inappropriate burials".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I am not proposing to accept this amendment because I believe what the Deputy is seeking to achieve is already covered within the provisions of the Bill. Section 8(2)(b) requires the Government to have regard to available evidence including "any reliable and corroborated statement made by a person with knowledge of the circumstances and location of the burials concerned." Amendment No. 19 aims to create an additional requirement that the Government consider any reliable evidence of a third party with knowledge of the circumstances and location of the burials concerned. However, it is, in fact, already covered by section 8(2)(b), which stipulates that the Government must have regard to "any reliable and corroborated statement made by a person with knowledge of the circumstances and location of the burials concerned." The reference to "person" includes third parties and the requirement that such an individual provide a statement is not onerous in the circumstance. I would like to make it clear that I agree with the importance of taking all reliable evidence into account but I believe the current provision sufficiently provides for that.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I am confident that the public interest test will in no way interfere with the proposal to intervene in Tuam.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Amendments Nos. 20 and 21 were put forward on Committee Stage and I cannot accept them for the reasons I outlined at that stage.

The Government has to balance the need to intervene with the need to respect the long-standing tradition of the sanctity of burials. It is important to recognise that the excavation and recovery of human remains is an extensive, complex and sensitive intervention.

Safeguarding the public interest is an important concept. It is used in other domestic and European legislation. It is necessary to set out a strong legal basis grounded in public interest to ensure the impact of the proposed intervention on constitutional rights is limited and proportionate to the aims of this particular legislation. It is on that basis that the Bill requires consideration of safeguarding public interest and sets out a number of factors the Government will take into account when determining if an intervention is proportionate. These include the need to accord dignity to persons buried in the land; the need to respect the views of relatives of persons buried in the land; public health; the impact of the intervention; and alternative options, if any, which may be available.

It is difficult to disagree with the importance of according dignity to persons buried in the land. Public health is also an important factor to have regard to given that public health considerations are one of the main reasons laws about the exhumation of remains are strictly controlled. We cannot disregard the impact on the wider public, including local residents. Furthermore, we all agree with the need to consider the views of relatives of persons buried in the land. In some locations - we spoke about this earlier - relatives may not be supportive of excavation and their views need to be respected.

I stress that I am confident that nothing in the test, as set out, would in any way intervene with the fact that the situation in Tuam meets the criterion of "manifestly inappropriate".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 23:

In page 17, line 19, to delete "initial person" and substitute "initial period".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Not at all.

We had a discussion about this. I made the argument on Committee Stage that the issues that the Deputy is seeking to include explicitly were already included. However, we went back to the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel. We have tabled an amendment that is quite similar to the amendments Deputies Funchion and Ward tabled.

Amendment No. 31 expands the list of information sources to explicitly refer to religious organisations and communities, including, but not limited to, a diocese or parish of the Roman Catholic Church and the Church of Ireland. I would like to highlight the importance of future-proofing this legislation, which is why I do not want to limit the reference to the Catholic Church and to the Church of Ireland. This hopefully addresses the issue and may even go a little beyond what the Deputies had proposed earlier.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 31:

In page 30, between lines 31 and 32, to insert the following: “(g) a religious organisation or community including but not limited to a diocese or parish of the Roman Catholic Church and a diocese or parish of the Church of Ireland,”.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I discussed this issue with Deputy Ward on Committee Stage. Section 29, which is proposed to be amended here, relates solely to the database and the related records that were compiled by the mother and baby homes commission of investigation. We passed legislation on that in October 2022. That legislation provided a copy of that database to Tusla, but the AAI does not have a copy of that-----

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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We specifically mentioned Tusla. The amendment, therefore, is of no purpose.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 33:

In page 32, line 11, after “not,” to insert “at any time,”."

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 34:

In page 32, line 15, to delete “and”."

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 35:

In page 32, line 16, after “not,” to insert “at any time,”."

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 36:

In page 32, lines 18 and 19, to delete all words from and including “obtained” in line 18 down to and including line 19 and substitute the following: “obtained by the person while performing his or her functions as a member of staff of FSI under this Act,”."

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 37:

In page 32, between lines 19 and 20, to insert the following: “(c) a person who is or was a member of the Oversight Committee shall not, at any time, unless he or she is required or permitted by law or duly authorised in writing to do so by the Oversight Committee, disclose confidential information obtained by the person while performing his or her functions as a member of that Committee under this Act, and

(d) a person who provides or provided services, or is or was engaged as a consultant or adviser to the Oversight Committee, in accordance with section 69in relation to functions of that Committee under this Act, shall not, at any time, unless he or she is required or permitted by law, or duly authorised in writing to do so by the Oversight Committee, disclose confidential information obtained by the person while providing such services or being so engaged.”."

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 38:

In page 32, line 28, to delete “paragraph (b)” and substitute “paragraph (b) or(c)”."

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 39:

In page 33, line 18, after “Government” to insert “, the Oversight Committee”.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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We discussed these amendments on Committee Stage. Again, I am not in a position to accept them.

With regard to amendment No. 40, following pre-legislative scrutiny, I significantly revised the part of the legislation that deals with excavations, which included the addition of provisions that specify that appropriately qualified persons will undertake excavation and post-recovery analysis in line with international standards and in accordance with professional rules and guidelines. It is clear that the work needs input from a range of disciplines. Only a multidisciplinary approach can meet international standards and can deliver specifically on the Government’s commitments in respect of the Tuam site.

Regarding amendment No. 41, it is not clear why excavation and post-recovery analysis under this legislation needs to be implemented in accordance with the Coroners Act, given that the Act does not regulate excavation. The Bill does provide that if evidence of violent and unnatural death emerges, the coroner will be notified.

I again highlight the definition at the beginning of the Bill, which specifies that forensic excavation and recovery means excavation and recovery in the manner sufficient to satisfy legal requirements regarding the use and storage of evidence in connection with the identification of remains, including in criminal proceedings. It is clear, therefore, that the legislation explicitly commits to applying forensic standards to ensure that any evidence gathered through the process can be used in proceedings, including criminal ones. This places a clear obligation on the director to apply forensic standards when arranging for excavations and recovery of remains under section 35.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 42:

In page 34, line 36, to delete “human remains, and” and substitute “human remains,”.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 43:

In page 34, line 37, to delete “paragraph (b).” and substitute “paragraph (b), and”.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 44:

In page 34, between lines 37 and 38, to insert the following: “(iv) whether a notification was made under subsection (2) ofsection 36to a member of An Garda Síochána and the coroner referred to in that subsection and, if so, whether the evidence related to subsection (1)(a)or (b)of that section.”.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 46:

In page 35, line 9, to delete "ordinarily".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 47:

In page 39, line 22, to delete "niece or nephew" and substitute "niece or nephew (whether of the whole blood or the half-blood), grandniece or grandnephew".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 49:

In page 46, lines 34 and 35, to delete "relevant information" and substitute "relevant information and documents".

Amendment No. 52, which was also put forward by Deputies Funchion and Ward on Committee Stage, seeks to expand the definition of "relevant information" to be used by a director in establishing a familial link in an identification programme. I explained in committee that the intention had always been to facilitate the use of different types of documentation. In this regard, the definition of "relevant information" in the Bill is open-ended and provides only brief examples.

However, I committed to examining how the definition could be expanded to include more explicit and wide-ranging examples. Amendments Nos. 49 to 51, inclusive, and No. 53 provide for the broadening of the text of the definition of "relevant information" with due regard to the amendment put forward by the Deputies. The Bill continues to provide for an open-ended definition but expands on the examples given to include baptismal certificates, institutional admission and discharge records and information obtained in post-recovery analysis. I hope this addresses the Deputies' concerns.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 50:

In page 47, line 18, to delete "paragraph" and substitute "paragraphs".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 51:

In page 47, to delete lines 26 to 28 and substitute the following:

"(5) In this section and in section 54, "relevant information and documents" includes— (a) birth, baptismal and death certificates and records relating to a person who resided in the institution concerned,

(b) records relating to the institution concerned including admission and discharge records, and

(c) information obtained through post-recovery analysis.".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 53:

In page 49, line 8, to delete "relevant information" and substitute "relevant information and documents".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 54:

In page 51, line 26, to delete "niece and nephew" and substitute "niece and nephew (whether of the whole blood or the half-blood), grandniece and grandnephew".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 55:

In page 55, between lines 34 and 35, to insert the following: "(d) the facilitation of the performance by the Oversight Committee of its functions under Chapter 7in relation to the management and operation of the Databases,".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 56:

In page 57, to delete lines 35 to 37, and in page 58, to delete line 1 and substitute the following:

"CHAPTER 7

Oversight Committee and review of operation of Databases

Request that DNA Database System Oversight Committee perform functions under Act

66.(1) Where the functions of a Director specified in an order undersection 7include carrying out an Identification Programme and the relevant Minister has received a notification under section 46(7)that the Programme is continuing, the relevant Minister shall, with the prior consent of the Minister for Justice, and after the Minister for Justice has consulted with the DNA Database System Oversight Committee (in this Act referred to as the “Oversight Committee”), direct the Oversight Committee in writing to oversee the management and operation of the Databases for the purposes of maintaining the integrity and security of the Databases and the Oversight Committee shall, for those purposes, satisfy itself that the provisions of this Act in relation to the Databases are being complied with.

(2) Where the Oversight Committee is, pursuant to a direction under subsection (1), overseeing the management and operation of the Databases it shall meet and be known as the Historic Remains Databases Oversight Committee.

(3) Subject to this Chapter, the Oversight Committee shall be independent in the performance of its functions under this Act.

(4) In performing functions under this Act— (a) the chairperson of the Oversight Committee other than a serving judge, and the ordinary members of the Committee other than the Director of FSI and the person nominated for appointment by the Data Protection Commission, shall be paid such remuneration (if any) as the relevant Minister may, with the consent of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, from time to time determine, and

(b) the chairperson and ordinary members of the Oversight Committee shall be paid such allowances for expenses as the relevant Minister may, with the consent of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, from time to time determine. Functions of Oversight Committee

67.(1) Where directed to do so under section 66*, the Oversight Committee shall oversee the management and operation of the Databases referred to in the direction for the

purposes of maintaining the integrity and security of the Databases, and shall, for those purposes, satisfy itself that the provisions of this Act in relation to the Databases are being complied with.

(2) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1), the Oversight Committee shall oversee— (a) the arrangements employed by the Director of FSI in relation to the receipt, handling, transmission and storage of samples taken under this Act for the purpose of generating DNA profiles for entry in the DNA (Historic Remains) Database,

(b) the procedures employed by the Director of FSI in relation to the generation of DNA profiles from the samples taken under this Act,

(c) the quality control and quality assurance of procedures referred to in paragraph (b)to ensure that the procedures comply with international best practice,

(d) the measures employed by the Director of FSI to ensure that the Databases are not improperly accessed by any person, that the DNA profiles entered in the DNA (Historic Remains) Database and information entered in the Personal Information (Historic Remains) Database are used only for the purposes permitted by this Act and that the profiles and information are not improperly disclosed to any person,

(e) the means by which the results of searches of the DNA (Historic Remains) Database are reported by the Director of FSI to the Director, and

(f) the practices and procedures employed by the Director of FSI to ensure that, in accordance with the requirements of this Act, samples taken under this Act for the purpose of generating DNA profiles are destroyed and the DNA profiles generated from those samples and related information are deleted. (3) The Oversight Committee may, in the performance of its functions under this Act, make such recommendations as it considers appropriate in relation to the management and operation of the Databases to the relevant Minister, the Minister for Justice and the Director.

Meetings and Procedures

68.(1) The Oversight Committee shall, while performing functions under this Act, hold such and so many meetings as may be necessary for the performance of those functions and may make such arrangements for the conduct of its meetings and business (including the establishment of subcommittees and fixing of a quorum for meetings) as it considers appropriate.

(2) The Oversight Committee shall regulate its own procedure by rules or otherwise.

(3) At a meeting of the Committee— (a) the chairperson of the Committee shall, if present, be the chairperson of the meeting, or

(b) if and for so long as the chairperson of the Committee is not present or if that office is vacant, the members of the Committee who are present shall choose one of their number to be chairperson of the meeting. Administrative support and engagement of consultants or advisers

69.(1) The relevant Minister shall, with the consent of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, provide the Oversight Committee with such funds, facilities and services

(including secretarial services) as the relevant Minister, following consultation with the chairperson of the Committee, considers appropriate for the performance by the Committee of its functions under this Act.

(2) The Oversight Committee may, with the approval of the relevant Minister, engage such consultants or advisers with scientific or technical expertise as the Committee considers necessary for the performance of its functions under this Act.

Cooperation with Oversight Committee

70.(1) The Director of FSI and the other members of the staff of FSI shall cooperate with the Oversight Committee in relation to the performance of its functions under this Act and shall, for that purpose, furnish to the Committee such information as the Committee may request and which, in the opinion of the Committee, is required for the performance of its functions.

(2) The Oversight Committee may, whenever it considers it necessary for the performance of its functions under this Act, request a Director to meet with the Committee or to furnish information to the Committee.

(3) A Director shall comply with a request made to him or her under subsection (2).

Review and report by Oversight Committee

71.(1) Subject to subsection (2), the Oversight Committee may, and if so requested by the relevant Minister where he or she has consulted with the Minister for Justice, shall, review any matter relating to the management and operation of the Databases, prepare a report in writing on the review and, as soon as practicable after the report is prepared, furnish a copy of the report to the relevant Minister, the Minister for Justice and the Director.

(2) A report under subsection (1)shall not contain confidential information (within the meaning of section 30(5)).

(3) Subject to subsections (4)and (5), the relevant Minister concerned shall, as soon as practicable after receiving a report under subsection (1), cause a copy of the report— (a) to be laid before each House of the Oireachtas, and

(b) to be published in such manner as the relevant Minister considers appropriate. (4) The relevant Minister concerned may, when laying the report before each House of the Oireachtas and publishing the report under subsection (2), omit any matter from the report where he or she is of opinion that the disclosure of that matter would be prejudicial to the security of the Databases.

(5) If a matter is, in accordance with subsection (4), omitted from a report laid and published under subsection (3), a statement to that effect shall be attached to the report when it is so laid and published.

Final report of Oversight Committee

72.(1) The Oversight Committee shall prepare a final report on the performance of its functions pursuant to a direction under section 66(2)** within 6 months of the conclusion of the Identification Programme to which the direction relates and shall, as soon as practicable after the report is prepared, furnish a copy of the report to the relevant Minister, the Minister for Justice and the Director.

(2) A final report prepared under subsection (1)shall not contain confidential information (within the meaning of section 30(5)).

(3) The relevant Minister concerned shall, as soon as practicable after receiving a report under subsection (1), cause a copy of it to be laid before each House of the Oireachtas and published in such manner as the Minister considers appropriate.".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 57:

In page 58, to delete lines 7 and 8 and substitute the following: "67.(1) Subject to subsection (2), FSI shall, at the request of a Director, destroy a sample, delete a DNA profile or delete related information in accordance with this Chapter.

(2) Subsection (1)shall not operate to require FSI to delete related information that it needs to retain in order to demonstrate that it has complied with the requirements of this Part.".

I signalled my intention on Committee Stage to bring forward amendments to sections 67 and 69 in regard to the process of deleting information associated with an identification programme. These technical amendments are proposed on foot of advice we received from Forensic Science Ireland, FSI. Amendment No. 57 provides that certain information can be retained by FSI to show how the process of obtaining samples and profiles complied with the provisions of the legislation. This amendment aligns the approach taken to the deletion of related information in situations where samples are destroyed and profiles are deleted with that which is in place under the Criminal Justice (Forensic Evidence and DNA Database System) Act 2014, which FSI advised has worked well.

Amendments Nos. 58 to 61, inclusive, will facilitate a more direct way of linking a second or subsequent bone from a deceased person to a family member. The provisions authorise the retention of DNA profiles from relevant persons after there has been a notification of a familial link in order that any further remains from a deceased person who has already been linked to a family member can be more easily linked to that person again. This is important in a site like Tuam where individualising remains may be challenging and it is possible that more than one bone from the same person will be sent for analysis. The amendments will enable FSI to use the most direct way of comparing the DNA profile of such bones with the DNA profiles of family members.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 58:

In page 58, lines 34 and 35, to delete "and delete a DNA profile generated from that sample".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 59:

In page 59, between lines 9 and 10, to insert the following: "(b) delete a DNA profile generated from a sample taken from a relevant person under section 60not later than the expiration of 3 months after the date on which the following first occurs—

(i) that part of the Identification Programme set out inparagraphs (a)to (c) of section 46(2)is completed in respect of principal burial land and ancillary burial land, or

(ii) the Director makes a decision, under section 47(1), that the part of the Identification Programme referred to in subparagraphs (ii) and (iii) of section 46(2)(c)should cease,".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 60:

In page 59, lines 26 and 27, to delete "and delete a DNA profile generated from that sample".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 61:

In page 59, between lines 36 and 37, to insert the following: "(b) delete a DNA profile generated from a sample taken from an applicable person not later than the expiration of 3 months after the date on which the following first occurs—

(i) that part of the Identification Programme set out in paragraphs (a)to (c)of section 46(2)is completed in respect of principal burial land and ancillary burial land, or

(ii) the Director makes a decision, under section 47(1), that the part of the Identification Programme referred to in subparagraphs (ii)and (iii)of section 46(2)(c)should cease,”.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 62:

In page 62, line 12, to delete "and".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 63:

In page 62, line 13, to delete "human remains." and substitute "human remains, and".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 64:

In page 62, between lines 13 and 14, to insert the following: "(m) the performance of oversight functions, equivalent to those to be performed by the Oversight Committee under section 67(2)(a)*to (f)*, by a suitably qualified person where the performance of such oversight functions is necessary having regard to any regulations made under this section to facilitate further forensic testing.".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 65:

In page 63, line 5, to delete "A person" and substitute "Subject to subsection (2), a person".

Amendments Nos. 65 and 66 are technical amendments to clarify that an appeal against a determination of the director in regard to participation in an identification programme or a finding that the genetic and non-genetic data are not sufficient to suggest a familial link must be made within an eight-week period. The original text referred to "may" rather than "shall". It is important that there be a clear timeline within which an appeal can be made.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 66:

In page 63, line 12, to delete "An appeal under subsection (1)may be made" and substitute "An appeal under subsection (1)shall be made".

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 67:

In page 65, line 16, to delete "section 79(1)" and substitute "section 78(3), 79(1)".

I signalled my intention on Committee Stage to bring forward amendments on Report Stage relating to compensation in the context of assessing land. Due to reconfigurations and amendments to Part 5 of the Bill, there is currently no provision for a statement of compensation or notification of when works will commence to issue to public bodies where they are the owner or occupier of land. Amendments Nos. 67 to 70, inclusive, seek to address this.

Amendment No. 71 clarifies that the period of time for the calculation of the compensation is the period during which it is estimated that relevant works or related activities will be carried out, not the period specified in an order under subsections 82(2) or 84(2). The amendment is necessary because a statement of compensation will have issued before an order could be made under subsections 82(2) or 84(2).

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 68:

In page 65, between lines 32 and 33, to insert the following: “(3) A Director shall—

(a) where relevant works are to be carried out on principal burial land or ancillary burial land that is owned or occupied by a public body, by notice in writing inform the public body of his or her intention to carry out relevant works on the land,

(b) where related activities are to be carried out on ancillary land that is owned or occupied by a public body, by notice in writing inform the public body of his or her intention to carry out related activities on the land,

(c) specify in a notice under paragraph (a)or (b), the estimated duration of the relevant works or related activities, as the case may be, on the land concerned,

(d) where the public body is both the owner and occupier of the land to which a notice under paragraph (a)or (b)relates, state in the notice the date on which it is intended that the relevant works or related activities, as the case may be, shall commence on the land concerned,

(e) where the public body is not the owner and occupier of the land to which a notice under paragraph (a)or (b)relates, state in the notice that the Director may proceed with the relevant works or related activities, as the case may be, on the land concerned, in accordance with section 77(1)(b)(i)or (ii), and

(f) attach a statement of compensation to a notice under paragraph (a)or (b).

(4) A notice under paragraph (a)or (b)of subsection (3)shall have appended to it such maps and plans, on such scale, as are sufficient to enable the clear identification of the principal burial land, ancillary burial land or ancillary land, as the case may be, to which the notice relates.

(5) Where subsection (3)(d)applies, a Director may proceed with the relevant works or related activities, as the case may be, on the land which is the subject of the notice, at any time after the date referred to in that provision.”.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 69:

In page 71, to delete lines 15 to 25 and substitute the following: “(i) include an offer of compensation calculated in accordance with section 87and state that the compensation may be accepted within a period of 28 days—

(I)where the statement issues to a public body under section 78, from the date of service of the notice, or

(II) in all other cases, from the later of—

(A) the date on which consent is given under section 79, 81 or 83, as the case may be, to the carrying out of the works or activities concerned,

(B) where consent is not given and a court order is made under section 80, 82 or 84, as the case may be, authorising the works or activities concerned, the date on which the period of time allowed for an appeal against the order expires where no appeal has been made, or

(C) where such a court order is made and an appeal has been made, the date on which the order has been confirmed on appeal,”.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 70:

In page 72, lines 20 and 21, to delete “, if the offer issues after the date referred to clause (I)to (III)of subparagraph (i),”.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 71:

In page 73, to delete lines 28 to 32 and substitute the following: “(a) by reference to the period during which it is estimated the relevant works or related activities, as the case may be, will be carried out,”.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 72:

In page 75, line 8, to delete “Subject to subsection (2)and (3), a Director shall” and substitute “A Director shall”.

On Committee Stage, I signalled my intention to bring forward an amendment on Report Stage to remove the provision exempting the director from carrying out remedial works on a site where the owner or occupier planned to carry out the works or where the land is subject to development. This amendment is on foot of engagement with the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, which advised that it would be appropriate for the director to remediate a site in circumstances where intervention at a site is exempt from planning permission.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 73:

In page 75, to delete lines 13 to 27.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 74:

In page 75, line 29, to delete “the relevant planning authority” and substitute the following: “the planning authority (within the meaning of the Act of 2000) in whose administrative area the land in question is situate”.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 75:

In page 75, to delete lines 31 to 37.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 76:

In page 76, between lines 23 and 24, to insert the following: “(3) A relevant Minister shall, for the purpose of section 99(5), notify the Director concerned in writing of the dissolution day at least 6 months in advance of that day.”.

Amendments Nos. 76, 77 and 78 are mine, while amendment No. 79 is from Deputies Funchion and Ward. This was an aspect we discussed in some detail on Committee Stage. As we know, a report will be coming from an agency set up under this legislation and will be published. Deputies wished to ensure that the director of the agency would be able to come before an Oireachtas joint committee to discuss the report. Specifically, the concern was to ensure that the dissolution of the agency coinciding with the publication of the report would not mean that there was no director to come before a joint committee. I refer to a measure to enhance accountability. Therefore, we engaged with the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel and we have brought forward a mechanism we believe addresses this aspect.

Amendments Nos. 77 and 78 address Deputies' concerns by providing that a director will be required to submit a final report to the relevant Minister at least 12 weeks before the day on which the agency is dissolved. The relevant Minister will then be required to lay the report before the Dáil within six weeks of receiving it. This timeline will, at a minimum, provide for a guaranteed six-week window during which a director could be called before an Oireachtas joint committee to discuss the report prior to dissolution day.

Amendment No. 76 is a consequential amendment that provides that the relevant Minister must notify a director at least six months in advance of the day proposed to be the dissolution day. This will ensure the director will be given sufficient notice to prepare the final report. I hope this addresses the issues raised by Deputies.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 77:

In page 79, line 1, after “Minister,” to insert “at least 12 weeks”.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I move amendment No. 78:

In page 79, to delete lines 12 to 14 and substitute the following: “(7) A relevant Minister shall, within 6 weeks of receipt of a report under subsection (5), cause copies of that report to be laid before each House of the Oireachtas.”.