Dáil debates

Thursday, 28 March 2019

National Children's Hospital: Motion (Resumed) [Private Members]

 

The following motion was moved by Deputy Michael Healy-Rae on Tuesday, 12 March 2019:

Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:

-(Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Jim Daly)

1:40 pm

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I must now deal with a postponed division relating to the motion regarding the national children's hospital. On Tuesday, 12 March 2019, on the question that the amendment to the motion be agreed to, a division was claimed and in accordance with Standing Order 70(2), that division must be taken now.

Amendment again put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 47; Níl, 86; Staon, 0.


Tellers: Tá, Deputies Seán Kyne and Tony McLoughlin; Níl, Deputies Mattie McGrath and Michael Collins.

Maria Bailey, Seán Barrett, Pat Breen, Colm Brophy, Richard Bruton, Peter Burke, Catherine Byrne, Seán Canney, Ciarán Cannon, Joe Carey, Marcella Corcoran Kennedy, Simon Coveney, Michael Creed, Michael D'Arcy, Jim Daly, John Deasy, Pat Deering, Regina Doherty, Paschal Donohoe, Bernard Durkan, Damien English, Alan Farrell, Frances Fitzgerald, Brendan Griffin, Simon Harris, Martin Heydon, Heather Humphreys, Seán Kyne, Josepha Madigan, Helen McEntee, Finian McGrath, Joe McHugh, Tony McLoughlin, Mary Mitchell O'Connor, Kevin Moran, Dara Murphy, Denis Naughten, Tom Neville, Michael Noonan, Kate O'Connell, Patrick O'Donovan, Fergus O'Dowd, Michael Ring, Noel Rock, Shane Ross, David Stanton, Katherine Zappone.

Níl

Gerry Adams, Bobby Aylward, Richard Boyd Barrett, John Brady, John Brassil, Declan Breathnach, Tommy Broughan, James Browne, Pat Buckley, Joan Burton, Mary Butler, Thomas Byrne, Jackie Cahill, Dara Calleary, Pat Casey, Shane Cassells, Jack Chambers, Lisa Chambers, Joan Collins, Michael Collins, Niall Collins, Catherine Connolly, Ruth Coppinger, Barry Cowen, David Cullinane, John Curran, Clare Daly, Pearse Doherty, Stephen Donnelly, Timmy Dooley, Dessie Ellis, Martin Ferris, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Seán Fleming, Kathleen Funchion, Noel Grealish, Michael Harty, Seán Haughey, Séamus Healy, Brendan Howlin, Billy Kelleher, Alan Kelly, Gino Kenny, Martin Kenny, James Lawless, Michael Lowry, Marc MacSharry, Charlie McConalogue, Mary Lou McDonald, Mattie McGrath, Michael McGrath, John McGuinness, Denise Mitchell, Aindrias Moynihan, Michael Moynihan, Imelda Munster, Margaret Murphy O'Mahony, Catherine Murphy, Eugene Murphy, Paul Murphy, Carol Nolan, Darragh O'Brien, Jonathan O'Brien, Jim O'Callaghan, Willie O'Dea, Kevin O'Keeffe, Fiona O'Loughlin, Louise O'Reilly, Jan O'Sullivan, Maureen O'Sullivan, Eoin Ó Broin, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Éamon Ó Cuív, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Willie Penrose, Thomas Pringle, Brendan Ryan, Eamon Scanlon, Róisín Shortall, Brendan Smith, Bríd Smith, Brian Stanley, Peadar Tóibín, Robert Troy, Mick Wallace.

Amendment declared lost.

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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I move amendment No. 3:

To delete all words after “Dáil Éireann” and substitute the following:

“notes:

— the cost escalation in the construction of the National Children’s Hospital, from €650 million in 2016 to €1.433 billion in November 2018;

— the additional €300 million in commissioning, Information and Communications Technology (ICT) and other costs, bringing the total costs to €1.733 billion;

— the fact that this will make the National Children’s Hospital several times more expensive per bed than the most expensive hospitals in the world;

— the complete failure of Government oversight which has allowed an overrun of this scale;

— the complete failure of the Government to accept any material responsibility for the overrun; and

— the pressure this overrun will put on numerous health projects across Ireland for several years, potentially including services provided at the National Children’s Hospital;

further notes:

— the dedication of clinicians at the current children’s hospitals in Dublin to provide the best possible standard of care;

— the intense pressure on sick children, their families and clinicians due to the out-of-date facilities at these hospitals;

— the urgent need for a new National Children’s Hospital;

— the reported clinical advantages of tri-location with adult teaching and maternity hospitals;

— the several hundred million euro in public monies already expended and associated with winding down the current site and contractual obligations;

— the sixteen years from when the Government made a decision to build a National Children’s Hospital to the projected opening date of that hospital, in 2022; and

— the material risks associated with moving the location of the National Children’s Hospital, at this stage, including the potential for a higher final cost, and many years of further delay;

acknowledges:

— the lack of consensus amongst clinicians and other stakeholders with regard to the choice of the current site for the National Children’s Hospital; and

— the genuine anger and concern felt by many parents of sick children regarding potential difficulties of access, and other issues, associated with the current site; and

calls on the Government to:

— ensure the on-going PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) report includes an extensive value-engineering analysis to identify options for reducing the cost overrun;

— urgently produce a costed and timetabled plan for the delivery of the new Coombe Women and Infants University Hospital, relocated with the National Children’s Hospital;

— redesign the process for public strategic capital projects, to enable more rapid timeframes from ideation to completion;

— include in the PwC report, in light of the massive cost overruns at the current site, an analysis of the total costs and delays associated with moving the site; and

— act on the chronic clinical recruitment and retention issues being experienced, to ensure successful workforce planning.”

Amendment put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 112; Níl, 18; Staon, 3.


Tellers: Tá, Deputies Michael Moynihan and John Curran; Níl, Deputies Mattie McGrath and Noel Grealish.

Gerry Adams, Bobby Aylward, Maria Bailey, Seán Barrett, John Brady, John Brassil, Declan Breathnach, Pat Breen, Colm Brophy, James Browne, Richard Bruton, Pat Buckley, Peter Burke, Joan Burton, Mary Butler, Catherine Byrne, Thomas Byrne, Jackie Cahill, Dara Calleary, Seán Canney, Ciarán Cannon, Joe Carey, Pat Casey, Shane Cassells, Jack Chambers, Lisa Chambers, Niall Collins, Marcella Corcoran Kennedy, Simon Coveney, Barry Cowen, Michael Creed, David Cullinane, John Curran, Michael D'Arcy, Jim Daly, John Deasy, Pat Deering, Pearse Doherty, Regina Doherty, Stephen Donnelly, Paschal Donohoe, Timmy Dooley, Bernard Durkan, Dessie Ellis, Damien English, Alan Farrell, Martin Ferris, Frances Fitzgerald, Seán Fleming, Kathleen Funchion, Pat Gallagher, Brendan Griffin, Simon Harris, Seán Haughey, Martin Heydon, Brendan Howlin, Heather Humphreys, Billy Kelleher, Alan Kelly, Martin Kenny, Seán Kyne, James Lawless, Marc MacSharry, Josepha Madigan, Charlie McConalogue, Mary Lou McDonald, Helen McEntee, Finian McGrath, Michael McGrath, John McGuinness, Joe McHugh, Tony McLoughlin, Mary Mitchell O'Connor, Denise Mitchell, Kevin Moran, Aindrias Moynihan, Michael Moynihan, Imelda Munster, Margaret Murphy O'Mahony, Catherine Murphy, Dara Murphy, Eugene Murphy, Denis Naughten, Tom Neville, Michael Noonan, Darragh O'Brien, Jonathan O'Brien, Jim O'Callaghan, Kate O'Connell, Willie O'Dea, Patrick O'Donovan, Fergus O'Dowd, Kevin O'Keeffe, Fiona O'Loughlin, Louise O'Reilly, Jan O'Sullivan, Eoin Ó Broin, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Éamon Ó Cuív, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Willie Penrose, Michael Ring, Noel Rock, Shane Ross, Brendan Ryan, Eamon Scanlon, Róisín Shortall, Brendan Smith, Brian Stanley, David Stanton, Robert Troy, Katherine Zappone.

Níl

Richard Boyd Barrett, Tommy Broughan, Michael Collins, Catherine Connolly, Clare Daly, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish, Michael Harty, Séamus Healy, Gino Kenny, Mattie McGrath, Carol Nolan, Maureen O'Sullivan, Thomas Pringle, Bríd Smith, Peadar Tóibín, Mick Wallace.

Staon

Joan Collins, Ruth Coppinger, Paul Murphy.

Amendment declared carried.

1:50 pm

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Amendment No. 2 cannot be moved because amendment No. 3 has been agreed to.

Amendment No. 2 not moved.

Question put: "That the motion, as amended, be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 113; Níl, 19; Staon, 3.


Tellers: Tá, Deputies Michael Moynihan and John Curran; Níl, Deputies Mattie McGrath and Noel Grealish.

Gerry Adams, Bobby Aylward, Maria Bailey, Seán Barrett, John Brady, John Brassil, Declan Breathnach, Pat Breen, Colm Brophy, James Browne, Richard Bruton, Pat Buckley, Peter Burke, Joan Burton, Catherine Byrne, Thomas Byrne, Jackie Cahill, Dara Calleary, Seán Canney, Ciarán Cannon, Joe Carey, Pat Casey, Shane Cassells, Jack Chambers, Lisa Chambers, Niall Collins, Marcella Corcoran Kennedy, Simon Coveney, Barry Cowen, Michael Creed, David Cullinane, John Curran, Michael D'Arcy, Jim Daly, John Deasy, Pat Deering, Pearse Doherty, Regina Doherty, Stephen Donnelly, Paschal Donohoe, Timmy Dooley, Bernard Durkan, Dessie Ellis, Damien English, Alan Farrell, Martin Ferris, Frances Fitzgerald, Seán Fleming, Kathleen Funchion, Pat Gallagher, Brendan Griffin, Simon Harris, Seán Haughey, Martin Heydon, Brendan Howlin, Heather Humphreys, Billy Kelleher, Alan Kelly, Martin Kenny, Seán Kyne, James Lawless, Marc MacSharry, Josepha Madigan, Charlie McConalogue, Mary Lou McDonald, Helen McEntee, Finian McGrath, Michael McGrath, John McGuinness, Joe McHugh, Tony McLoughlin, Mary Mitchell O'Connor, Denise Mitchell, Kevin Moran, Aindrias Moynihan, Michael Moynihan, Imelda Munster, Margaret Murphy O'Mahony, Catherine Murphy, Dara Murphy, Eugene Murphy, Denis Naughten, Hildegarde Naughton, Tom Neville, Michael Noonan, Darragh O'Brien, Jonathan O'Brien, Jim O'Callaghan, Kate O'Connell, Willie O'Dea, Patrick O'Donovan, Fergus O'Dowd, Kevin O'Keeffe, Fiona O'Loughlin, Louise O'Reilly, Jan O'Sullivan, Eoin Ó Broin, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Éamon Ó Cuív, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Willie Penrose, John Paul Phelan, Michael Ring, Noel Rock, Shane Ross, Brendan Ryan, Eamon Ryan, Eamon Scanlon, Róisín Shortall, Brian Stanley, David Stanton, Robert Troy, Katherine Zappone.

Níl

Richard Boyd Barrett, Michael Collins, Catherine Connolly, Ruth Coppinger, Clare Daly, Michael Fitzmaurice, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish, Michael Harty, Séamus Healy, Gino Kenny, Michael Lowry, Mattie McGrath, Paul Murphy, Carol Nolan, Maureen O'Sullivan, Bríd Smith, Peadar Tóibín, Mick Wallace.

Staon

Tommy Broughan, Joan Collins, Thomas Pringle.

Question declared carried.