Dáil debates
Wednesday, 8 February 2017
Ceisteanna - Questions
Cabinet Committee Meetings
2:20 pm
Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach when the next meeting of the Cabinet committee on infrastructure, environment and climate action will take place. [4168/17]
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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6. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on infrastructure, environment and climate action last met. [5743/17]
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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7. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on infrastructure, environment and climate action will next meet. [5764/17]
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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8. To ask the Taoiseach when the next meeting of the Cabinet committee on infrastructure, environment and climate action will take place; and the persons that attend. [6039/17]
Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I was glad to attend the event in Maynooth.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Hold on.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Taoiseach has to answer it first.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Eamon Ryan is away.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach answers first.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Eamon Ryan is out with the gun like Usain Bolt up there.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is the first time I have seen someone answer a Taoiseach before he has replied and thanking him for his reply.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Eamon Ryan took off like Usain Bolt.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 to 8, inclusive, together.
The Cabinet committee on infrastructure, environment and climate action last met on 30 January 2017. It is due to meet again later this month. The committee addresses the climate change challenge in terms of domestic policy and in respect of Ireland's EU and international obligations. In addition, the committee drives the development and delivery of key infrastructure and associated policy, including oversight of relevant commitments in the programme for Government. I chair the Cabinet committee and the membership is comprised of the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality; the Minister for Finance; the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government; the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform; the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation; the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment; the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine; the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport; the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Regional, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs; and the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade.
Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his response.
I attended the event of the launch of the national planning framework last week in Maynooth. I agreed with much of what the Taoiseach said about the need for the State to prepare and have a vision for the future, and to start taking the technological changes that are happening and advance them, and be in the lead, and create employment, create prosperity and create a better society in that process, but when it comes to the issue of climate change, nothing is happening in the State.
The briefing notes on the climate mitigation plan came out last week and there is nothing new in it. There is no ambition.
Increasingly, all the analysis internationally is mentioning Ireland as a laggard. We are mentioned in the same breath as Poland. That is how bad it is now, internationally. We are one of only two countries which will not meet their 2020 climate targets. A report last week by the European Union states we will not meet our renewables targets. It will cost us a fortune, not only in fines but in missing out on the economic opportunity.
Following the national climate dialogue where the environmental community went to a previous climate meeting and presented a host of innovative initiatives as to how one could get dialogue going, they have heard nothing back. All we hear about is maybe some schools programme and some regional meetings - no ambition.
None of what the Taoiseach stated at the launch of the national planning framework about what we need to do is happening on climate. The whole system is effectively saying, "Do nothing, wait ten years and see what happens to the rest of the world and then we might do something." That is a big mistake.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Eamon Ryan is wrong here. If the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment had not had his accident, I expect that the dialogue to which we committed following the Deputy's own attendance at the Cabinet sub-committee, which was a useful meeting, would be up and running by now. It is the Minister's intention fully to engage with the groups Deputy Eamon Ryan brought to that meeting to let them have their opportunity to contribute to this.
Perhaps the Deputy should meet the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment to have a full appraisal of the extent of what is going on in terms of the agenda and the complex discussions that are taking place about mitigation and reaching our targets, both here and at a Brussels level. I have a wealth of information here which I will not have time to outline for the Deputy now. Perhaps he should have a full appraisal with the Minister and afterwards, if the Deputy feels there are particular issues he wishes to pursue further, we would be happy to work with him.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Every day we have new evidence of climate change and the detrimental effect it has on our environment and the rejection of all of this evidence by the new US Administration will clearly make the situation worse. The programme for Government refers to climate change being the global challenge of our generation. I appreciate that the Minister had an accident and I wish him well, but this goes before his cycling incident. The fact is the Government has not fulfilled the programme for Government commitment to extensive public consultation to incorporate the land use, infrastructural and economic issues in a long-term transition to a new low-carbon future. Almost a year after the Government was elected, there is still no sign of this. Can the Taoiseach tell us when we will see measures put in place? Can we also get some sense of when the national low-carbon transition and mitigation plan will be published? It was to be published within six months of the new Government being formed. That has not happened. Then there is the big concern that we will not meet our 2020 emission targets or 2030 emission targets. Can the Taoiseach update the Dáil on what is happening to all of these really important and critical issues?
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank Deputy Adams.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I will finish on this. The Government's plans for the implementation of pay-by-weight bin charges and the protections which will be in place for low-income households was a significantly controversial issue.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are over time here now.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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There has been a dramatic increase in the amount of waste being dumped on the sides of our roads. Can the Taoiseach give us a sense of what additional measures the Government envisages for dealing with this problem?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is a review on the latter matter under way by the Minister at present and he will report to the House in due course.
The national dialogue on climate change will gather representatives of civil society to discuss and maximise consensus on climate actions. The Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government would hope that there will be a merger between the climate dialogue and the 2040 vision, which, I think, will be necessary. Obviously, it is envisaged that the dialogue will provide a mechanism to allow the mobilisation of strategic citizen and various group actions to address the climate challenges for Ireland. The briefing document, recently published, on the national mitigation programme and the statutory consultation to follow in mid-March are seen as a central part of the dialogue in terms of providing input on and, therefore, the prioritising and implementation of climate change policy.
The Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment is preparing proposals for the climate change national dialogue. These will come before the next Cabinet committee and will inform members.
The national mitigation plan will represent a whole-of-Government approach involving significant cross-departmental involvement that sets out exactly what Ireland is planning to do to further our transition to a low-carbon climate resilient and environmentally sustainable economy and development of Ireland's first statutory national mitigation plan represents a hugely important step in this transition.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In terms of infrastructure generally, it is clear that there is a broader issue here. The Government does not seem to have any imaginative or creative proposals to deal with the infrastructural bottlenecks and the necessary projects that will be required over the medium term. The previous capital plan was a five-year plan and in the first two years, very little happened because all of the funding was back-loaded to the last two. It got people through a general election. It seems to me that was its sole purpose.
There is an issue in terms of the volume of funding available to get necessary works done. For example, the children's hospital is now estimated to cost €1 billion. Will that impact on other health infrastructure across the country?
Will the Taoiseach clarify that? We were sold a pup years ago when Deputy Howlin said that the national lottery was being sold to fund the children's hospital.
2:30 pm
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It was to part-fund it.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That was probably one of the biggest fibs of all time, because that has come and gone.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That is unfair. I do not mind the Deputy using euphemism-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should relax.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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-----but since I spent some time in the Chair reading precedents of the Dáil I know he is not allowed to say that.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It had nothing to do with the children's hospital but he needed a hook on which to hang the privatisation of the lottery. As a left-wing Deputy, he had to hang it on some type of hook.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It was not privatised.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That was €1 billion. The Deputy knows what I am saying - the management of it was.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It was a licence.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The other issue is that projects such as the Cork to Limerick motorway are on ice. It is major infrastructure. If we are to deal with the difference between Dublin and the west there must be infrastructure in the west.
The third point is that this time last year, the Taoiseach dug a sod in Cork, allegedly to confirm that the events centre was starting. It was a very cynical political act. It is 12 months later and nothing has happened, although the Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government, Deputy Coveney, who is sitting beside the Taoiseach has announced-----
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's is out of time.
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy does not know what he is talking about.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do, because nothing happened.
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has never once come looking for detail on that project. He has done nothing to help it.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can we please not have a constituency dispute?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Let them go, a Cheann Comhairle, it is great fun.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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He has just announced to the newspaper that we need another €10 million.
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I have not.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has. It was in the Evening Echolast night.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Martin, it is great fun but would you resume your seat?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Coveney had it advertised on the back of every bus in Cork before the election, which is not-----
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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It is not the first time today that the Deputy has decided to get into constituency projects.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Martin, these are questions to the Taoiseach.
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has done nothing to help the project.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Coveney, restrain yourself.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Coveney is very sensitive about it obviously.
Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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It is a county council meeting.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can the Taoiseach respond, please?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Martin said that people were sold a pup here. Obviously, we were sold many pups over the years from the national spatial strategy onwards. The Government has a clear picture of what it wishes to do. The Ministers for Public Expenditure and Reform and Finance have set out the strategy for the mid-term capital review. The Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government, Deputy Coveney, has started the national consultation on the vision for the country for 2040. The Deputy raised the Limerick to Cork motorway. That is the reason, on the opening of the European Investment Bank office in Dublin, we wish to consider a series of infrastructure projects such as that motorway-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Varadkar killed that project.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----and projects in port development. Where a stream of income could potentially come from the metro or the Luas that will pay for those long-term, low interest loans from the European Investment Bank, that will provide another opportunity to deal with infrastructure that cannot be dealt with from the Exchequer reserves alone. That is going to facilitate particularly important elements of where we wish to be 20 years hence.
The national children's hospital will go ahead. The Minister for Health will bring a business case to the Cabinet shortly. This is about a project catering for 25% of the country's people, the children, for the next 50 years. We have been talking about it for 20 years. We had the same with the National Maternity Hospital. Both projects are very important for the health reform strategy and structure-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That was not the question.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We will deal with it. In case anybody gets the idea that it will not happen, there will be a fixed contract price and there will be a monitoring committee to ensure it happens and that it will be operating by 2021.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Deputy Coveney is correct that there has been a great deal of fanciful talk today.
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Absolutely. It is rewriting history.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The licence to operate the lottery had to be tendered under European competition law. It was a matter of European law, as was explained in some detail. To get €410 million for it was good. Of that, there was €200 million for the national children's hospital, which was supposed to cost €400 million at the time. The other €200 million was spent on roads and schools, by re-establishing the summer works programme, at a time when we did not have a bob because Deputy Martin and his team had banjaxed the country.
I have two questions for the Taoiseach. I listened to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform speaking on national radio this morning. He appeared to indicate that the overshoot in the cost of the national children's hospital is to come from paring across the Government. Is that a fact, or is there to be a significant expansion of the capital programme?
With regard to climate action, is the national mitigation plan costed? How much will the cost be? Will an ambitious plan be rolled out to retrofit all public buildings, starting with schools, to ensure they have solar panels and are completely energy efficient?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The national children's hospital will go ahead.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Where will the Government get the money?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Health will bring his business case to the Cabinet. It is not to be completed until 2021. The Deputy is correct. I distinctly remember him, when he was a Minister, bringing his memorandum to the Cabinet in accordance with proper procedures to deal with the lottery funding being made available to commence that project. Obviously, the capital expenditure review to be carried out in the middle of this year is part of being able to deal with essential projects such as this one. It may well be that in some departmental reflections some additional donations might be made for it-----
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Do they know there are going to be additional donations?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We must remember that during the recession, caused by bad politics, many firms tendered on the limit or under price and many of them actually went out of business. This will be the biggest infrastructure project in the country for many years to come and it is not within the range of most construction firms. There will be a fixed price for this and it will be adhered to. I hear quotations just short of €1 billion, having risen from €450 million to €650 million and to €800 million and €900 million. Let us see what the business case states. However, this is one issue that will be dealt with and will proceed.