Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Before I call the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Alex White, I advise the House that if any Member has an issue or complaint relating to Standing Orders, the appropriate forum in which to raise it is the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, CPP. As Chair this morning, I am overseeing the procedures for Leaders' Questions. Any Member may go to the CPP with an issue relating to the ordering of business in the House, but he or she cannot stipulate how Leaders' Questions operate in this Chamber. I call on the Minister to reply to the question from Deputy Sean Fleming.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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To assist in ensuring order in the House, I will not ask the Deputy any more questions. I can understand his aversion to being asked questions, whether it is about this issue, his party's economic policy or anything else. I will not ask him any more questions because I know he finds it difficult to address those issues.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I will answer any questions the Minister has.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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What I have said in response to the Deputy is true. He started off in an attempt to mollify me by accusing me of being intelligent. All I am saying is that he knows the Government has no statutory power to intervene in the way he seems to be suggesting. If he is proposing a change in the law, let us hear what he has to say. I realise there is a competitive tension between the two parties opposite in their attempts to achieve notice in the House.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Order, please.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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I am anxious to clarify the matter. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, said yesterday:

I am calling in the senior management of the six major lenders in the market in Ireland, and I will present them with the evidence from the Central Bank, and I will say to them I think they should reduce their interest rates and that we want to discuss it, and I will want them to explain why they cannot, but we would prefer it if they did. If you call that pressure, that is pressure, but I would see that as a discussion [with the banks] in the normal way. But I do not have legal authority to direct [the banks].

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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What we are seeing, yet again, is a hands-off Government when it comes to dealing with the banks. This State is reeling from a once-in-a-century economic catastrophe. That catastrophe was in large part precipitated by the Fianna Fáil golden circle and Anglo Irish Bank. In 2011, people right across the State voted to smash that golden circle and close the door forever on Anglo Irish Bank. They also voted to ensure this would never happen again. Many people invested their trust in the Labour Party to ensure that was the case.

The Siteserv debacle has demonstrated that, in a few short years, Fine Gael has become more Fianna Fáil than Fianna Fáil itself and the Labour Party is as useful as a mudguard on a tortoise. It bends the mind of people of my generation that despite the destruction of this State, both the golden circle and IBRC are back at centre stage. Last week, in response to demands for a commission of investigation into IBRC, the Tánaiste and leader of the Labour Party said she wanted an independent inquiry by a competent authority.

Is the Minister happy that the review, which the Government has proposed, is a genuinely independent inquiry to be carried out by a competent authority, as demanded by his party leader, when it involves KPMG which played a central role in the sale of Siteserv? Is there not a glaring conflict of interest at the heart of this review, which renders it incapable of assuaging the public concerns that now exist with regard to the Government cover-up of this scandal? Will the Government now move to deal with these concerns by establishing a commission of investigation? Will the Minister guarantee that shareholder activity is contained within the scope of this commission of investigation?

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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What the debate over the past few days indicates is the utter bankruptcy of the Sinn Féin Party with regard to any kind of vision or any kind of economic future for this country or any kind of a coherent sense of what has to happen and what is happening in terms of restoring our economy, creating jobs-----

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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In Australia.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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-----and facing the future in a confident way.

Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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What about the homeless people?

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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There would be no recovery if we had listened to Sinn Féin and its leader and there certainly would be no recovery-----

Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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They will be recovery for the wealthy.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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----- if we were to follow the kind of policies, if one can even call them that, that Sinn Féin advocates.

In respect of the issue Deputy Tóibín raised, the review that has been announced by the Minister for Finance, as he well knows, will cover transactions that resulted in a capital loss to IBRC of at least €10 million during the period concerned, or that are specifically identified by the special liquidator as likely to give rise to potential public concern in respect of the ultimate returns to the taxpayer. The purpose of this review is to determine whether there is evidence of material deficiencies in IBRC's performance in respect of such transactions and related activities and management decisions and whether it can be concluded that the transactions were not commercially sound. The Minister, Deputy Noonan, has asked that the special liquidators carry out this review and provide a report of their findings before 31 August of this year. Following this, the report will be made available to relevant committees of the Oireachtas. The special liquidators are best placed to undertake such a review-----

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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Will it be independent?

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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-----thoroughly and expeditiously given their access to all the books and records of IBRC, the resources at their disposal to conduct such a review and the power set out under the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Act which allows the Minister to make this direction in the public interest.

To address potential conflicts of interest, with the agreement of the special liquidators, the retired High Court Judge, Mr. Justice Iarfhlaith O'Neill, is being appointed to monitor any actual or perceived conflicts of interest. This will ensure that the review process is robust. There will never be a situation where a person involved in a transaction will be involved in reviewing that transaction.

This review and report are to serve the public interest in light of recent speculation and they are not being undertaken as a result of any evidence that such deficiencies existed or that transactions were not commercially sound.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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Is it going to be independent?

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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I note that the Minister dodged the question of whether it is going to be independent.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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It is.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Despite reams of questions from Opposition Deputies, including my colleague, Deputy Pearse Doherty, regarding the IBRC transactions, the Minister, "hands-off Noonan", refused to reveal very serious concerns expressed by his own officials about the series of IBRC transactions. Vital information was withheld from the Dáil. This Dáil was misled on the IBRC scandal and, to add insult to injury, the Minister comes in here today, representing the Labour Party in government, and attempts to justify the Government cover-up.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Where is the transparency?

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Again I ask the Minister will he now put an end to this cover-up by declaring that the Government will set aside a farcical and fatally compromised review and initiate simply an independent inquiry, carried out by a competent authority, as demanded by his party leader last week?

I will ask the Minister one further question and I want him to listen to it because it is an important one. Will he inform the Dáil if members of the Cabinet are aware of any individual who was a shareholder of Siteserv who would have had access to IBRC information around the sale of Siteserv and who would have information around the tender of Irish Water and Siteserv? I will put that question again.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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We have that, Deputy.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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I will ask it again as it is very important.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Is it very important - what about the kangaroo courts?

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Minister inform the Dáil if members of the Cabinet are aware of any individual who was a shareholder of Siteserv who would have had access to IBRC information around the sale of Siteserv and who would have information around the Irish Water-Siteserv tender? I remind the Minister of the importance of this information and the damage done by the closed culture of the Minister for Finance over the past few weeks.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Do not forget the "T" word - "transparency".

Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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It is a straightforward question.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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It is a classic tactic of Sinn Féin to level allegations, which have no grounds and for which the Deputy has presented no grounds-----

Sandra McLellan (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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It is a question.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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You sound like P. J. Stone.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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-----masquerading as a question. That is a classic tactic of the party.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Just answer the question.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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There is absolutely no basis for that.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Do members of the Cabinet know?

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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I am a member of the Cabinet and I am certainly not aware, and I can only answer for myself, but I believe that the manner in which the Deputy-----

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Minister confident that other members of the Cabinet do not know?

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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-----poses questions, a little like the way his party colleagues, including Deputy McDonald, operate in this House, is to make allegations without any foundation-----

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister is dancing around the question.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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-----leave them on the record and make no effort whatsoever to ensure-----

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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----- that there is any kind of a reasonable basis for what is being said.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Minister confident that members of the Cabinet-----

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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Have any Labour Party TDs ever used parliamentary privilege?

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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That means-----

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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Has any Labour Party TD ever used parliamentary privilege?

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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-----that the Deputies opposite cannot actually be taken seriously in relation to anything they say.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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The list of them would be as long as my arm.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Order, please.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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If they come in and have something to say, they should have a basis for it. I believe that this inquiry is the correct way to proceed.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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You sound like P. J. Stone.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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I believe that it will be independent. I believe that it will report by the end of August.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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One of the participants is KPMG.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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I believe that Mr. Justice Iarfhlaith O'Neill, a retired High Court judge, will ensure that any conflict of interest, or perceived conflict of interest, will be addressed. It would do well for this House for the Deputy opposite to see that the best way to proceed in this kind of matter is to have a robust investigation-----

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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By an independent authority.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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Yes, an independent investigation, and to bring the results in here and pass them to a committee and deal with them at that stage, but that is not the way the Deputies opposite operate.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Cabinet know of individuals?

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Thank you.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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They operate on the basis of smear and on the basis of groundless allegation-----

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Cabinet know?

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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-----and that is always the way they operate.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I call Deputy Clare Daly from the Technical Group and I ask for order.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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I find it incredibly ironic that a couple of weeks ago those in government were falling over themselves on the Government benches to express their solidarity with Dunnes Stores workers and their horror about the repressive and anti-worker onslaught of the Heffernan family. Yet here we are today with the Government playing the role of Margaret Heffernan in a battle against the country's bus workers. The Government can dress it up any way it wishes. It can try to hide behind the Minister for Transport, Deputy Donohoe, and Eoin O'Duffy's descendants sitting behind the Minister, but the reality is that there is a huge significance in the fact that these workers will be involved in industrial action and protest action on May Day, international workers day, against a decision made by a Government made up of the party founded by James Connolly to defend workers' interests. How far ye have travelled.

Let us be clear. No worker ever wants to go on strike. These bus workers are making a stand not just to defend their terms and conditions but to make a stand against privatisation and in defence of public services. In recent weeks we have had to listen to Government representatives trying to persuade them that this is not about privatisation but about competitive tendering. Guess what? They called it competitive tendering and franchising in Britain but it still ended up with British Rail being handed over to private companies, with prices and subsidies rising and big payouts to shareholders.

The Government has tried to persuade us that it is not its fault and that Fianna Fáil started it. It is right. It certainly did, but the reason this Government is in power is because people thought it would be different, not that it would carry on what Fianna Fáil had started. It has also said it is the fault of the European Union but there is nothing in the EU directive of 2007 which demands competitive tendering. In fact, it specifically states the Government does not have to have it so it should stop trying to con people. Nobody is falling for it.

I ask the Minister and his Government to stop blaming Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann workers for what is going on. How could any right thinking worker believe statements from the Government that their terms and conditions will be protected and that they will not have to transfer when they know that their colleagues in Team Aer Lingus, for example, had not only commitments but significant and supposedly legally binding letters of guarantee that would not happen to them, but it did? How could these people believe the press statements from the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, that their pensions will be maintained when their colleagues from the DAA and Aer Lingus will be assembling in their hundreds tomorrow outside the Aer Lingus annual general meeting because their retirement pensions have been decimated? Would the Government not just come clean and admit that what is going on here is a classic situation that Noam Chomsky described as the standard technique of privatisation - "defund, make sure things don't work, get people angry ... [and then] hand it over to private capital".

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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The tactic of getting people angry may be one that is practised by the Deputy opposite but it is certainly not one that is practised on this side of the House.

Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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It was when the Deputy was on this side.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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The Labour Party would have won an Oscar for being angry when it was in opposition.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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It is very regrettable that it now appears there is likely to be a strike this weekend. This is a pity as it will have an impact not just on the workers concerned, which I understand, but also on commuters across the country on a bank holiday weekend. It is regrettable and a great pity that it could not have been avoided and averted.

I am not, contrary to the Deputy's accusation, in the business of blaming people - management, workers or anyone else. I very much hope that some time in the very near future it will be possible for the parties to get around the table and reach an agreement on the issues involved. Deputy Daly, in her normal way, delivered a little lecture to me about trade union solidarity but I know all about the trade unions in the bus company and I know the efforts they have made in recent years, along with management, to transform the company and ensure that it is a good, strong public service company for the people of this city and elsewhere in the country. I am sure it will go from strength to strength, with strong management and strong trade unions. That is what makes a company like Dublin Bus successful.

The broader issue is that in a growing economy like ours the Government wants to ensure that commuters have the best service available to them to get to and from their place of work speedily and efficiently. We are greatly concerned that this industrial action is happening in circumstances where the NTA is carrying out its statutory duty of proceeding with a tendering process that has resulted from its assessment of how best to direct and award tendered PSO bus services in the public interest. The strike action will cause considerable disruption over the weekend to the public across the country and will inevitably damage the company's finances if it goes ahead.

The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Donohoe, confirmed yesterday that following detailed discussions with the bus companies, management was willing to give a commitment that no driver currently employed would be required to transfer to another operator unless he or she wished to do so. It is not a question of transferring to another company and having concerns about terms and conditions of employment in that new company because no worker will be compelled to transfer to a private operator. I appreciate and accept that the unions have other concerns but the best way for them to be resolved is around the table. The unions should sit down and do what they do so well, as they have done in Dublin Bus, and seek to reach agreement in the interests of their own members and of the broader community.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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There are so many contradictions that it is hard to know where to start. If Dublin Bus is so great and everything is going so well, why in God's name is the Government breaking it up and undermining it? If the Labour Party believes in a public transport system, why did it stay in Government for four years and stand over a falling subvention for bus services every year up to 2014? The subvention has been cut for the past seven years, four of them on the Labour Party's watch. Why does the Minister's party stand over the crazy situation of reducing the subvention instead of increasing it thereby taking people out of their cars in order to address issues like climate change? Instead, this Government has continued the obscenity of spending €50 million annually to fund the west-link toll bridge company, NTR, not to mention the millions spent on PPPs for roads that are not being used sufficiently. Why is that money not invested in public transport?

The Minister has said that the bus drivers do not need to worry because they will not be transferring but let us look at that commitment, even though nobody believes any commitments this Government makes any more. The Minister expects us to believe that the company is going to carry an extra 10% of workers but at the end of 2019, that will be used against it to argue that the company is uncompetitive. It will be used as a justification for further privatisation, as history has already taught us.

I know that the Minister is familiar with the writings of James Connolly and he will probably attend the memorial service at his grave next week. No doubt Connolly will be doing some turning in that grave when the Labour Party shows up. That aside, Connolly said that "governments in capitalist societies are but committees of the rich to manage the affairs of the capitalist class". I believe he was right and that is exactly what the Labour Party is doing. Why does it not just fold up the red flag and join the boys in blue behind it?

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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When one prepares for Leader's Questions, the writings of Noam Chomsky are not usually in one's briefing notes. I must congratulate Deputy Daly for being able to bring in quotations from both Chomsky and Connolly but let us look at the real issues that are facing the people of Dublin and the people in the bus company. The Deputy is wrong in her great survey and is all over the shop on the Government. She forgot to mention, because it would not suit her rhetoric, that last year Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann were paid more than €90 million in PSO payments by the taxpayer, over and above the passenger fare income, to provide public bus services. A further €90 million in funding was also provided for new buses and the upgrade of the fleet. The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport ---

Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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We have one of the lowest levels of PSO payments in Europe.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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The problem is that when people make an allegation and get an answer they do not like they try to stop one answering. The fact is that this Government is investing in public transport and in the bus companies.

Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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We have one of the lowest levels of PSO payments in Europe.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport recently put on record his commitment to securing an increase in the subvention provided to the companies to deliver additional services and increase frequency for commuters. The Deputies do not want to hear that either. This year, for the first time since 2008, the PSO contribution for bus and rail services is being maintained at the same level as last year.

Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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After years of cuts.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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That is action taken by this Government and by the two parties in government. I am proud of what the Labour Party is doing in government in every respect. I would like to debate with the Deputy at some point her perspective on what Connolly would do today or what he would think we should be doing today. I would not mind having that debate with the Deputy some time to expose the absolute bankruptcy of the position that she and some of her colleagues try to advocate in here every day of the week. We do not have time for that today.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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No, we do not.

Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)
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I look forward to doing it on another occasion.