Dáil debates
Tuesday, 16 July 2013
Order of Business
4:50 pm
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is proposed to take No. 11, motion re referral to joint committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann for a directive of the European Parliament and of the Council on the fight against fraud and a regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council on Europol and repealing Decisions 2009/371/JHA and 2005/681/JHA; No. 12, Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011 - Financial Resolution; No. 19, Health (Amendment) Bill 2013 Seanad - Committee and Remaining Stages; and No. 20, Construction Contracts Bill 2010 Seanad - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages.
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight and shall adjourn not later than 11 p.m.; Nos. 11 and 12 shall be decided without debate; the Committee and Remaining Stages of No. 19 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 10 p.m. tonight by one Question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Health; the Report and Final Stages of No. 20 shall be taken tonight and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 11 p.m. by one Question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance; and in the event a division is in progress at the time fixed for taking Private Members' business, which shall be No. 44, Garda Síochána (Amendment) Bill 2013 - Second Stage, Standing Order 121(3) shall not apply and Private Members' business shall, if not previously concluded, adjourn after 90 minutes and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 9 p.m. on Wednesday, 17July 2013.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are five proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight and shall adjourn not later than 11 p.m agreed to? Agreed.
Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 11 and 12, motion re referral to joint committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann for a directive of the European Parliament and of the Council on the fight against fraud and a regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council on Europol and repealing Decisions 2009/371/JHA and 2005/681/JHA and the Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011 - Financial Resolution agreed to? Agreed.
Is the proposal for dealing with No. 19, Health (Amendment) Bill 2013 Seanad - Committee and Remaining Stages, agreed to?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not agreed to. I will not force a vote on this. I again want to articulate our disquiet at the frequent use of guillotines in regard to such Bills. This is an important Bill which will have a very significant impact on many patients and people who will have to attend our public hospitals in the coming months and years. It merits significant debate on Committee Stage, in particular, as well as on Remaining Stages. It will receive very limited time today.
In the context of overall Dáil reform and the democratic revolution which was promised, day by day and week by week the actual experience of Dáil business, in terms of its scheduling and organisation, is falling far short of what was promised. It reflects the frustration of the Chief Whip who, two weeks ago, described the Government's performance as deplorable in regard to the reform of the Dáil.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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It was four weeks ago.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In the four weeks since then things have become worse in terms of reform procedures. We see the evidence of that all the time.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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No. 19 is an important Bill which will have the effect of increasing charges on public patients and the contributions paid by clients of long-term residential care. It needs full discussion. I will not press it to a vote but, as I said to the Taoiseach many times, what I have seen since I was elected to the House has not involved reform or doing business better, but has been about cutting debates short.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is a matter of considerable importance. The Minister for Health has engaged with insurance companies about reducing their cost base. The preparation of this Bill is an important element in the consideration of the conclusion of those negotiations. The main Opposition leader sought extra time on the courts of appeal Bill last Thursday and there was only one speaker from that side. Second Stage of the Health (Amendment) Bill concluded in less than two and a half hours. It is necessary that it be passed with a commencement order to start. It is a short Bill. No other speakers were involved on Second Stage and the Minister is anxious to have the matter concluded so that, in the interests of patients, we can have the reduction in the cost base envisaged under the private health insurers.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with No. 20, Construction Contracts Bill 2010 Seanad - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages, agreed?
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I very much welcome the Bill, which is good and has been eagerly awaited by small contractors. I rest my case; it is the same point I made earlier.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I understand spokespersons met with officials after Committee Stage last week and worked on the 20 amendments which were tabled. I understand there was a great deal of discussion about that. The Bill has been around for some time. It did not come before the House because of the necessity to work on amendments. It is important, in the interests of sub-contractors and related issues arising, that this be dealt with.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with No. 5, Private Members' business, agreed to? Agreed.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I wrote to the Taoiseach on 3 July in regard to the delay in filling the position of Secretary General Clerk of the Dáil post which is to become vacant on 5 August 2013. The Clerk will retire tomorrow and we might have an opportunity to speak on that.
I wrote a lengthy letter to the Taoiseach in which I pointed out that the process relating to the appointment of the Clerk or Secretary General of the Dáil should be transparent and accountable. In December 2012 the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, gave a commitment to amend the Staff of the Houses of the Oireachtas Act 1959, which he described as being outmoded and in need of change. His predecessor in the Department of Finance made similar comments in 2009. During a Topical Issue debate on 15 May 2013, the Minister stated:
I believe the objective in filling top posts of the Houses of the Oireachtas service should be to employ professionally organised and independent competitive selection mechanisms such as those that exist throughout the wider Civil Service to ensure the best possible person is selected from as wide a pool of talent as possible to lead the parliamentary service in future.I accept that the nomination of a suitable candidate for appointment by the Taoiseach rests solely with the Ceann Comhairle, following consultation with the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission. In light of all of the pledges made in respect of public and transparent selection processes and in view of the way in which the House has modernised and evolved to date, will the Taoiseach indicate the current status of the legislation in respect of which the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, made a commitment? Is it the Taoiseach's intention that the process relating to filling the position in question will be as wide-ranging and transparent as possible and that it will reflect the spirit of the programme for Government? There have been commitments from those on all sides to the effect that as wide as possible a range of people should be in a position to apply for consideration under the selection process.
5:00 pm
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has made his point.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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This is a very important issue.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sure it is, but we are on the Order of Business and Deputies should inquire about promised legislation.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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This is the final opportunity I will have to raise the matter prior to the summer recess.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The existing legislation bestows responsibility and roles in this regard on both the Ceann Comhairle and the Taoiseach. Deputy Martin can take it that the process which will be put in place will be open, transparent and accountable.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Taoiseach write back to me?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Of course I will write back to the Deputy.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It has been a month since I wrote to the Taoiseach.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will write to the Deputy at length and in good time.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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This is a serious issue.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are not discussing letters here. The Taoiseach provided the Deputy with a reply.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Members would like to know how the key administrative position in the House is going to the filled.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Exactly, and it will be filled.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We are not going to be informed as to how it will be filled. That is contrary to everything which has been said to date.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy inquired about legislation and the Taoiseach provided a reply.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is also contrary to everything the Government indicated would happen.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is suggesting that it will not be open, accountable and transparent.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have had no transparency from the Taoiseach on it and no proposals have been forthcoming.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I shall write to the Deputy.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have no sense of what is going to happen and this is despite all the commitments given by the Taoiseach and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I shall write to the Deputy and explain all.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Legislation was promised and it has not been forthcoming.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Martin should resume his seat.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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What is happening is regrettable. The House is being badly treated.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The programme for Government contains a commitment to develop a cultural plan for future commemorative events such as the centenary of the Easter Rising in 2016. This morning a number of other Oireachtas Members and I visited Moore Street and the buildings there which have been deemed to constitute a national monument and which stand in a state of considerable decay. The Taoiseach visited the same location and described it and the surrounding area as the "laneways of history". There is a clear view that this entire battlefield site should be preserved. I understand the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Deenihan, brought a memo on this matter to Cabinet this morning. The relatives of the signatories to the 1916 Proclamation who were with us on the plinth outside the Houses earlier were not informed of this fact or given any notification in respect of it. The memo was given to the media, which is unfortunate. Will the Taoiseach provide the Dáil with the detail of the memo?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is an important issue which has been discussed in the House on many occasions. The Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht brought a memo to Government this morning and a decision was made in respect of it. As the Deputy is aware, the national monument comprises Nos. 14 to 17 Moore Street. No. 16 is the location at which the final council of war took place and is owned by a company which is in possession of planning permission from Dublin City Council for-----
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It is owned by NAMA.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----a very extensive development. The Minister is concerned that buildings to the rear of Nos. 14 to 17 Moore Street, which were in existence either in 1916 or beforehand, should not be demolished. He is also concerned with regard to the proposal to put an underground car park in place beneath Nos. 14 to 17 Moore Street. For that reason, he recommended to the Cabinet that approval be given for the element of the development for Nos. 14 to 17 Moore Street - including conservation, presentation, interpretation, etc. - in respect of which there is no difficulty but that he would refuse to allow the demolition of buildings to the rear and the installation of an underground car park. The Government accepted the Minister's recommendation.
Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It is a mistake of historic proportions to give a developer who was part of the inner circle relating to the former Anglo Irish Bank permission to develop a shopping mall adjacent to a site of historic importance.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can raise this matter in another way.
Anthony Lawlor (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I have raised this matter on a number of occasions and the name of the relevant Bill has changed on a couple of occasions. Will the Taoiseach indicate when the assisted decision-making (capacity) Bill will come before the Cabinet, when it will be published and when it will be introduced in the Dáil?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That legislation was cleared by Cabinet last week and I expect it will be published this week.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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As I am sure has been the case for other Deputies, I have been contacted by many GPs in respect of the new attack launched against them. As everyone is aware, GPs provide a tremendous service. Not all of them work in primary care practices and they are being obliged to deal with successive cuts. Some of them literally cannot continue to operate. In the context of the Medical Practitioners Act 2007 (amendment) (medical indemnity insurance) Bill, it must be recognised that GPs constitute one of the only functioning aspects of the health system at present. These people work independently to provide employment and valuable services to their communities.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will obtain an answer in respect of the Bill for the Deputy.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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They are coming under such pressure that they are being obliged to close their practices. They are being obliged to let staff go and they are also being forced out of small towns and villages. As stated, they represent the only part of the health system which is functioning at present.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The legislation was on the A list and was due for publication during this session. However, this will not now happen. A great deal of work has been done on the Bill - it has virtually been completed - but it will not be published before the House rises for the summer.
Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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When will the pyrite levy Bill be introduced?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Later in the year.
Peter Fitzpatrick (Louth, Fine Gael)
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When will the data sharing Bill, the purpose of which is to underpin better risk-based enforcement, efficiency and co-operation in business regulation by allowing specified public bodies to share specified data relating to businesses, be published?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is not yet a date for publication. I will inform the Deputy of the work which has taken place since the previous occasion on which he raised the matter.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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I wish to declare a personal interest in the matter I wish to raise. Earlier today, the House heard statements on the report, Promoting a Sustainable Future for the Post Office Network. I thank the Government for allowing that important and informative debate to proceed. In the context of the programme for Government, will the Taoiseach indicate the legislation that is going to be put in place in respect of securing the future of the post office network? This matter is vital to every town and village throughout the country in which there is a post office.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not have a date in respect of that matter.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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The Taoiseach should have a date in respect of it.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I know. According to the Deputy, I should have a date for everything.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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That is not a good answer.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Will the Taoiseach indicate when the Garda Síochána (compensation for malicious injuries) Bill is likely to come before the House? Have the heads of this legislation been discussed or approved? When is it likely that it will be passed into law? Will the Taoiseach also indicate the position with regard to the planning Bill, which will provide for the implementation of planning recommendations in the report of the Mahon tribunal and other matters? Have the heads of this legislation been approved and when is it likely to be published and brought before the House?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The planning Bill, which relates to the Mahon tribunal, is due this year. The heads of the Garda Síochána (compensation for malicious injuries) Bill were cleared last July and it is due for publication later this year.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Taoiseach.
5:10 pm
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The proposed industrial wind turbine development is a highly controversial issue across the midlands. The Taoiseach may or may not be aware that public meetings are being held in every parish across the midlands on this issue. We are still working under the 2006 guidelines for wind turbines. It is an issue that-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is there promised legislation on this?
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Politicians across the board are being called on to have a moratorium on such development until the guidelines are changed. Perhaps new guidelines for wind turbines could be covered under the common arrangements that will apply under the gas or EirGrid legislation. It is an issue that has been promoted by the Government since it took office.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you, Deputy. You have made your point.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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People want a stay on such developments until new guidelines are drawn up.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is no date for the publication of those Bills. The Deputy has raised this issue on a number of occasions. I will have the Minister for Communication, Energy and Natural Resources contact him. This is not all within the Minister's control. There are planning applications, environmental impact studies and all of that. I will have the Minister consult the Deputy.
Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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When is it expected that next the Bill regarding the setting up of Irish Water will be brought before the House? I am conscious of the fact and have been led to believe that lucrative contracts for water metering will be announced next week when the Dáil will not be sitting. I thought we might have been informed of the content and extent of those contracts during this week when the Dáil is sitting.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The water services Bill is to be introduced later on in the year. The contracts, as I understand this, and I will have the Minister contact the Deputy, are for the major regional contractors who in turn will employ subcontractors to do the work on numbers of houses.
Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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They are not compelled to employ subcontractors.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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No, but they have at their discretion the option of employing pretty significant numbers of local contractors and unemployed persons from the construction sector, competent persons in the plumbing business and so on. I think these tenders are in; they are probably known at this stage. The announcement in respect of the regional contractors is to be next week, as the Deputy pointed out. I will ask the Minister, Deputy Hogan, to let the Deputy know about that.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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If I might revisit the Narrow Water Bridge project, as the Taoiseach will know there is huge disappointment north and south of the Border about the fact that the project appears to be on hold because of a financial shortfall. In view of the fact that the Minister for Finance is along with the Taoiseach today, I suggest that this project be considered along with the projects intended under the National Pensions Reserve Fund development structure. Given the symbolic and strategic nature of this project, it would be great pity if it did not proceed. It is shovel-ready and the Taoiseach has the structure in place to get the necessary finance to augment what is already there. I exhort him to give this suggestion serious and sympathetic consideration.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is no promised legislation on this.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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No, there is not. This is a matter that has the support of Europe in the sense that an allocation of €16 million has been made available for it and there are also contributions to be made from Northern Ireland, Louth County Council and the Government here, but the tenders are very seriously in excess of the amount estimated. The local authority is in discussion with the designers and the consultants here. I am not sure of the extent of the scale of the bridge that is planned for the tender that came in. We do not want a situation where tenders of any size can come in and the taxpayer is expected to foot the Bill at the end of the day. It is a matter, as Deputy Kirk is aware, and Deputy Fitzpatrick has brought this to my attention as well, that the local authority is now talking to the consultants about the scale and the preparatory work in respect of getting to the point where the bridge will be constructed. There are serious developments involved on either side of Narrow Water.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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If needs be, the Taoiseach could consider it in terms of the National Pensions Reserve Fund.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I have repeatedly raised on the Order of Business the plight of the 32 survivors of thalidomide. Last Tuesday, responding to a similar question from my party leader, Deputy Martin, the Taoiseach indicated that the Minister for Health had discussions with the organisations representing the thalidomide survivors. It is my information having spoken to the bodies during the course of last week that the Minister for Health has had no discussions with them. I am sure the Taoiseach's information was inadvertent but will he set to rights the record of the House and indicate when the Minister for Health will meet the bodies involved?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are straying away from the Order of Business.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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This is in the programme for Government.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I would not want to give anybody the impression that I was misleading the Dáil. My words may not have been entirely accurate. I had been speaking with the Minister for Health and as I understood it the discussions that had taken place had been progressive. I take the point that senior officials from the Department of Health and not the Minister met with both the Irish Thalidomide Association and the Irish Thalidomide Survivors Society - there are two groups representing the 32 survivors.
The German foundation is set to increase substantially by between 150% and 500% its monthly payments to thalidomide survivors, including Irish survivors, with effect from 1 August 2013, backdated to 1 January 2013. This State does not wish to take any action which would have the effect of jeopardising current or future payments to Irish survivors by the German foundation and, as such, the Department has requested the State Claims Agency to meet with the German Ministry and report back in regard to the implications of the issue that was raised concerning the application of German law to the payments made to Irish survivors of thalidomide. Both thalidomide organisations will be kept informed of the developments here. The Minister is obviously interested in this If I inadvertently gave the impression that he had been meeting with the associations, clearly, it was senior officials from his Department who met them, and I correct my words in that regard.
Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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When is publication expected of the customs Bill to consolidate and modernise national legislation relating to the administration of customs by a single piece of legislation?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That will be later this year.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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In regard to the Seanad abolition referendum, does the Taoiseach intend over the summer to bring forward legislation on reform of this House to give it strength and powers like other unicameral Legislatures such as New Zealand or Sweden? Will he spell that out clearly to the public, in other words, to people who would say they would vote for abolition of Seanad if the Dáil was reformed? Is that the Taoiseach's plan of action?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I hope to set out those changes for next week.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Will legislation follow or will the changes require legislation?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It may be necessary in some cases but I think we can make the vast majority of changes and run the place far more effectively without legislation.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It speaks volumes that they are to be set out when the Dáil will be in recess.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Deputy's party used to do the same thing.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach can text all the changes to us.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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He can get the new Clerk to deliver that.