Michael Noonan (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
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Question 43: To ask the Minister for Defence the current strength of the Permanent Defence Forces; the shortfall from the figure of 10,000 authorised by him; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23512/10]

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Question 156: To ask the Minister for Defence if he plans to increase the strength of the Defence Forces over the next two years; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23763/10]

Tony Killeen (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 23, 43 and 156 together.

The number of persons who have left the Permanent Defence Force and associated details since May 2009 are presented in the following tabular statements. The corresponding information for the Reserve Defence Force is being compiled and will be forwarded to the Deputy as soon as it becomes available.

Within the available resources, the Government is committed to maintaining the strength of the Permanent Defence Force at a level of 10,000 all ranks, for which Government approval has been secured in the context of budget 2010. This reflects the reductions in personnel recommended in the report of the special group on public service numbers and expenditure programmes.

I am advised by the military authorities that the strength of the Permanent Defence Force as at 30 April 2010, the latest date for which figures are currently available, was 9,856 comprising 8,036 Army, 797 Air Corps and 1,023 Naval Service personnel. I am further advised that the strength of the Reserve Defence Force as at 30 April 2010, the latest date for which figures are currently available, was 6,304, comprising 6,035 Army Reserve and 269 Naval Service Reserve personnel.

Targeted recruitment will be carried out in 2010 to maintain the operational capability of the Defence Forces. In this regard, I have recently approved the recruitment of 40 recruits to the Naval Service. In addition, as I have already stated, the military authorities will shortly advertise for some limited recruitment to the Army.

I intend, with the support of the Chief of Staff and within the resources available, to retain the capacity of the organisation to operate effectively across all roles while contributing to the necessary public service economies.

I am advised that, at this time, the Defence Forces retain the capacity to undertake the tasks laid down by Government at home and overseas.

BREAKDOWN BY BRIGADE, UNIT AND RANK OF ENLISTED PERSONNEL DISCHARGED BETWEEN 01 MAY 2009 AND 30 APRIL 2010

BREAKDOWN BY BRIGADE, UNIT AND RANK OF ENLISTED PERSONNEL DISCHARGED BETWEEN 01 MAY 2009 AND 30 APRIL 2010

BREAKDOWN BY BRIGADE, UNIT AND RANK OF ENLISTED PERSONNEL DISCHARGED BETWEEN 01 MAY 2009 AND 30 APRIL 2010

BREAKDOWN BY BRIGADE, UNIT AND RANK OF ENLISTED PERSONNEL DISCHARGED BETWEEN 01 MAY 2009 AND 30 APRIL 2010

AVERAGE AGE BY BRIGADE AND RANK OF ENLISTED PERSONNEL DISCHARGED BETWEEN 01 MAY 2009 AND 30 APRIL 2010

BREAKDOWN BY GENDER, BRIGADE AND RANKOF ENLISTED PERSONNEL DISCHARGED BETWEEN 01 MAY 2009 AND 30 APRIL 2010

BREAKDOWN BY GENDER, BRIGADE AND RANK OF OFFICERS WHO RETIRED BETWEEN 01 MAY 2009 AND 30 APR 2010

AVERAGE AGE BY BRIGADE AND RANK OF OFFICERS RETIRED BETWEEN 01 MAY 2009 AND 30 APRIL 2010

BREAKDOWN BY BRIGADE, UNIT AND RANK OF OFFICERS RETIRED BETWEEN 01 MAY2009 AND 30 APRIL 2010

BREAKDOWN BY BRIGADE, UNIT AND RANK OF OFFICERS RETIRED BETWEEN 01 MAY2009 AND 30 APRIL 2010

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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Would the Minister not agree that a reduction of 400 in Army personnel, from 8,433 to 8,036 from March 2009 to the end of April 2010, is worrying? Can he provide a reason for this major reduction? Is he aware that foreign military authorities, especially those in the Middle East, are now advertising in this country for aircraft expert technicians and army personnel? I understand this could be considered illegal. I was in contact with the Minister because I received a number of complaints about advertising. Is he aware of any of our personnel being lost to other countries, whether from the Middle East or elsewhere? Some of our national newspapers may not be aware that this is considered illegal under the 1954 Act. Has the Minister informed the editors of the various national newspapers this might be illegal? That would be very important.

Tony Killeen (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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It is not helpful or positive to have a fixation on numbers regarding the strength of the Defence Forces. It would be far better for the Defence Forces and their capability if we were to concentrate on that capability to do the job effectively. One factor that must be acknowledged is that with smaller numbers both the Department of Defence and the Defence Forces have a considerably greater output than was the case heretofore. That said, the sensible way to approach the issue of recruitment is to look very carefully at all the various sectors and target recruitment to those areas where it is immediately required.

The drop in numbers was driven to a large extent by the economic situation, in the first instance, and also by the recommendations of the McCarthy report which recommended a particular reduction in numbers. I have seen no evidence that the reduction in numbers has been impacted on in any way by former Army, Navy or Air Corps personnel being recruited by other armies. I can have that checked out further but am not aware of it at this point.

Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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Go raibh maith agat. I note that the last time we were here for Question Time, the Minister indicated that we were 123 below 10,000, a number that has increased by 21 in the interim, a figure that is less than I had expected. Obviously, this has another impact in terms of positions that will become available for recruitment. The question posed asked about rank, brigade, age and so on. In terms of the people who are leaving the forces is there any direction the Minister can give us as to what level they are leaving at, whether officer, NCO or private level, and from where are those who are leaving coming?

Is there any breakdown of where the people making up the increase in numbers of 21 since last month? From which branch of the services do they come and what rank do they have?

Tony Killeen (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy O'Shea raises a very important question. It impacts on the kind of recruitment campaign one might carry out, especially if there was an indication that people were leaving in large numbers from a particular segment and one would have to try to replace them in that area. One factor that has become apparent - I am not clear whether it is a trend - is that the figure of 21 is considerably less than one would have expected in a month.

Although I am not sure if it is a trend, the figure of 21 is considerably fewer than one would have expected in a month. One might expect two or three times that amount. At this point I do not know if the trend will be continued, as the numbers leaving per month would have an obvious effect on the rate of recruitment in trying to get to and maintain the number at around 10,000. This is particularly true in the context of trying to ensure the capability of each individual sector in the Army.

The only trend I have noticed, which may be more anecdotal than evidence-based, is that it appears to be difficult to retain women in the armed services. That is not an experience solely confined to this country and it may have to be addressed. Our experience does not appear to be different from those elsewhere. I have not noticed any other trends with regard to people leaving at officer level, etc.

It must be borne in mind that in some instances of a particular year, it may be the anniversary - if that is the right term - of a particularly big recruitment and in that case there may be a large number of retirees. We are trying to consider at what point that may have an input. The number of 21 in the past month is one of the smallest changes.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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In my question I mentioned gender. Will the Minister give an indication of the number of women leaving the service and the overall percentage of women in the Defence Forces? The Minister indicated that recruitment will be targeted, so does it follow that preferential treatment will be given in the recruitment of women?

Tony Killeen (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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That would be very difficult. The problem I mentioned is not really a question of recruitment but retention in certain areas, which is very difficult to address and needs to be considered in detail. On the question of rank and numbers, we would ideally need to look at a very large number of pages, and it would defy the patience level of the Leas-Cheann Comhairle if I tried to read them out.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I thank the Minister for the consideration.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister should ensure the employment control framework can be agreed as soon as possible. That is the Minister's task for the next week in his hands-on approach. The other issue regards gender, which I continually pursued with the Minister's predecessor. Consideration should be given to the Curragh, where there is the highest concentration of women officers involved in the forces at all levels. There was a proposal for a crèche in the Curragh but has it been shelved or is it still under active consideration? Women are leaving the Defence Forces for some reason and they may not be getting the supports most young married women would get. If they did, it might encourage such women to remain in the Defence Forces.

Tony Killeen (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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It may well be that the question of retention is more appropriate for direct attention than recruitment, and a raft of ideas has been aired. In some respects it might be reasonable to indicate that the White Paper will be very important in setting the medium-term goals for the Defence Forces. I would like to be in a position to get into that consideration as quickly as possible.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister did not address the crèche issue.

Tony Killeen (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I will have to get back to the Deputy on that. I have heard the issue mentioned but I do not have the required detail today.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister will make it a priority.

Tony Killeen (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is providing many difficult tasks and not much time to complete them.