Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent) | Oireachtas source

In the context of this debate, the questions that arise and the clarifications that are sought, it is important to remember some things. The individual citizen, whether a man or a woman and irrespective of age, is the object of all this legislation. The presumptions that some of the institutions have made in the framing and influencing of this legislation are breathtaking.

I offer one example. Deputy Stanton has discussed the matter from the perspective of a prospective employee or a person applying for a job in an institution or a company. Let us consider it - I am saying this carefully. Allied Irish Banks and other banks were convicted of criminality in the DIRT inquiry. Yet the presumption is that the individual who is applying for a job is more at risk or has to be more beholden to the prospective employer in terms of his sanctification before he goes ahead with an interview for the job with a company that is tarnished in so many ways. It is actually unbelievable.

This is why I come back to what I said earlier. We need to think about this legislation in terms of civility, society, community and family. Let us suppose a price has been paid by an individual for a transgression of the law in a criminality context. By the way, as I said earlier, some crimes are crimes from 20 years ago and are no longer crimes today. We need to be careful that we do not lose the purpose of what we are trying to do, which is true forgiveness in a context of rehabilitation, as Deputy Daly, Deputy Wallace and Deputy Pringle have all so clearly and eloquently expressed.

I appeal to the Minister not to lose the essence of what we are trying to achieve. Is there true forgiveness and absolution, or is it a wishy-washy make-believe masquerade that always allows for the conviction to become live again? If that is the case, I do not like it. It is neither healthy nor sane.

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