Mr. Brendan Gleeson:

We need to get landowners to plant trees, and generally they are farmers. Is this a big culture shift? I accept the point the Cathaoirleach is making, but what we are giving people is a number of choices so they can participate in agroforestry and keep grazing their animals under the trees. We have a small planting scheme where you do not need a licence but you can plant a hectare of trees, or two if they are along a riverbank. We have various options for people and those small things will not result in a big bang in terms of tree numbers the way the Cathaoirleach is talking about, but they do get farmers used to the idea that they can do this and earn a living from it. It is a toehold into the sector. This is a 30-year investment and we are right at the start of a programme where we are asking people to set a chunk of land aside in perpetuity. The message has to be that this is not instead of farming. This can be a valuable part of a farm enterprise. We have to do all of those things.