Marc MacSharry (Sligo-Leitrim, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

That is a joke. We cannot allow the public to know how much it is getting for its euro. That is laughable and unacceptable. The committee has a job to do. The Department of Finance is not alone. Time and again departmental officials have queued to tell us that information is commercially sensitive and what is the legal advice, etc. It actually does not matter that Mr. Hall took the case last week because the reality is that Mr. Carville will tell us nothing. He has spoken about the report the Department produces periodically, which is great. I said to another Secretary General last week that we were not here to celebrate all of what the witnesses were doing well. What is contained in the report is great, but we are only interested in finding what can be improved to get better value for money. That is what is missing from the report. Regardless of the case, Mr. Carville has confirmed for me that I need not waste any more time on this issue at the Committee of Public Accounts because witnesses will not tell us because of the commercial sensitivity of information. I have taken up enough time and I am bound to conclude. There is a culture across departmental agencies and organisations audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General which uses evasion and any device within their reach to avoid an appearance or candour at the Committee of Public Accounts and that subverts the people's right to know that they are getting value for money. On the basis of the parliamentary that were not answered in September, the fact that the case was taken last week and what we have just heard, it can be proved that we have no chance of having the level of public scrutiny required of this matter.

We need former staff of IBRC before the committee. I proposed this earlier and the Chairman will come back to it. We need the Secretary General before the committee as soon as he is well. I also believe, while it is not common practice, that the Minister needs to come before the committee to discuss this issue. It is heading for €300 million, it could be €1 billion by the time it is all over and I it is far too much public money for us simply to be told, "We are doing a great job here. You have nothing to worry about." That is simply not good enough. I thank the gentlemen for their attendance. I am not happy.