Mr. Lorcán O'Toole:

Dia dhaoibh, a chairde uasail. A Chathaoirleach, táimid an-bhuíoch as an seans seo caint faoin tionchar atá ag bainistíocht féarach agus feirmeoireacht sléibhe ar mhuintir na tuaithe agus ar mhuintir na nGaeltachtaí ar fud na tíre.

My name is Lorcán O'Toole and I am the manager of the Golden Eagle Trust, which is a small wildlife charity. I have worked with farmers in County Donegal for the past 12 years and prior to that I worked for nine years with farmers in the Scottish Highlands.

I will elaborate on the context of the interaction between upland farming and wildlife before Mr. Scallan makes his presentation. I will then look at the potential economic benefits from the relationship, which at times are overlooked and, third, I will look at a good example of co-operation between sheep farmers and wildlife, namely, the golden eagle project in Donegal.

On my return to Ireland, I worked as a Dúchas conservation ranger and I was surprised to find the people whom I met on the ground perceived nature conservation as a foreign concept. Whether we like it, perception is very important, but I would draw attention to the fact that Ireland has one of the oldest sets of sustainable landscape laws in Europe, the Brehon laws. Sometimes we may overlook that ancient respect and interaction with the landscape.

I think most of us would have enjoyed the films of the late Éamon de Buitléar in the 1970s and 1980s. Everybody was captivated by his film making and the way he told the story. However, in the past decade or two there is more fear of nature and fear for nature as well. Let us touch on aspects of fear - fear of designations, of outside interference, of the European Commission's rulings and over access. Fear leads to distrust and disharmony and as a consequence we must be mindful of the terminology we use. Words such as "directives", "descriptions" and "biodiversity" with which I am comfortable may have negative associations elsewhere. That is a twofold approach. I often hear farm leaders say they are the custodians of the landscape. I know they intend to be very positive about it, but in my view we should not try to be keepers or guardians of wildlife because the golden eagle should fly anywhere. The key concept is whether farmers can play a key role in healing the landscape in a way they did in the past but have been led away from as the focus has been placed entirely on food production, premia and incentives.

One can argue that emotions will not put money in the bank but at times, and we have heard some points today, there is a need for common sense between the pure economics and the science of the argument. The real question facing members in the next couple of months whether on commonage or disadvantaged area schemes or the future of upland areas, is whether the current system is delivering its potential in rural areas.

Rural Ireland is very complex and as members will see from the map, it has all different types of habitats. Different farmers will face different constraints and challenges. We are aware that we are lagging behind other European countries in some of the payments, and populations are falling in some areas. This map is based on census information collected by NUI Maynooth and the purple areas show a decline in human population. The decline may be very small but it is fair to say that something is happening in hillside areas. I suggest that members consider whether the current situation is working effectively for the wider public. This type of sensitivity leads us to believe that we need better communication, greater liaison and to instill a sense of pride and ownership so the attitude is much better.

There are arguments on the direction we should take. The Department, in conjunction with Bord Bia, set very ambitious targets for Harvest 2020. It is challenging to get the food production aspect right but it is extremely challenging to maintain that market position because we are aiming at the higher end of the retail trade. Other countries will be actively competing with us. Bord Bia states in its report published in January 2011 that its primary proposition is that Irish food is natural and we can prove it. In 2012, that evolved into the concept that the agrifood sector in Ireland is sustainable. These are key propositions. We cannot underestimate the expertise of Bord Bia. Naturalness and sustainability are key. We may think we are already there, however we must be mindful that in the next ten to 15 years the branding will be under pressure from other countries who will not sit back but will attack our market share.

Fáilte Ireland also has a clearer understanding now of why people come to Ireland. Unfortunately the committee cannot see the related data in my Powerpoint presentation. Fáilte Ireland conducted visitor attitude surveys and they showed that the British, American, French and German tourists especially have said that natural attractions, scenery and landscape are important issues. If we willingly interfere with those we will undermine another key component of the rural economy which is tourism.

I have previously worked for a bird conservation group in Scotland which had 1 million members. In other words, one in 60 Britons were interested in being paid up members in order to be bird watchers. The French and Germans, who are also European taxpayers, are very interested in natural attractions. Perhaps it is because we are so accustomed to them that we overlook them slightly.

Upland farmers do not necessarily compete with lowland farmers rather they complement more productive lowland farms on better soils. If we can instill upland farmers with a greater sense of ownership of nature and the landscape the entire farming sector might benefit. Perhaps the agriculture and agri-food sectors need a lot more wildlife experience inhouse. The Department could play a more direct role in wildlife. The farming representative bodies could have more wildlife experts inhouse. That would mean that farmers would not always have to seek advice from small charities or the National Parks and Wildlife Service. They would be able to say that this is our vision of wildlife.

I shall touch on the golden eagle project in Donegal. Golden eagles are at the top of the food chain and so are dependent on habitats. My slide displays information collected by the NPWS and sent to Europe. It shows that some of the upland habitats are in poor or bad shape. I am not assigning blame for it. The deterioration happened over the past 30 or 40 years for a variety of reasons but no one is blameless. We must decide how to deal with this great challenge and improve the situation. The habitats are in trouble and the European Commission can see that. The bird species in upland areas are in trouble. Our challenge is how can we address the problems, which include the farmers who are in trouble, the increasing age of the population and decreasing incomes. Is there any way to find an agreeable solution to tackle all of these problems?

The golden eagle in Donegal was introduced entirely with the co-operation of the Irish Farmers' Association and a lot of people are surprised by that. It is accepted that the golden eagle project has been beneficial to tourism in Donegal. The local Údarás na Gaeltachta tourism manager has suggested that the golden eagle project was one of the most important additions to Donegal tourism over the past ten years.

The key question is how does the Golden Eagle Trust Limited have a good relationship with the IFA in Donegal. At the start of the project I worked as a Dúchas wildlife range and then we set up the trust because Dúchas was nervous of proceeding with the project. It thought that the farmers might interfere with the eagles. I met George O'Hagan from the Donegal IFA and I said to him that he could stop the project quickly if he so wished. I also asked him to talk to the Scottish farmers first and to take their opinions on board. At the first IFA public meeting that I attended Mr. O'Hagan stood up before me and told the farmers that he had spoken to Scottish farmers who were happy with golden eagles. Basically people trusted Mr. O'Hagan and his opinion. The IFA has been a partner to the trust from the outset.

Mr. David Scallan and I will now present some ideas. We have spoken to Mr. Martin Gavin, Mayo IFA and Mr. Brendan O'Malley, Connemara IFA, in particular. Increasingly, we found that we had a lot more in common than we previously realised. The challenge is trying to get a more agreeable system.

We still lose birds through poisoning but it was banned by the Department in 2008 and the committee can verify that by reading Statutory Instrument 511. Yet there is still a need to discuss poisoning alongside predator control. Perhaps at times we are blinkered in our arguments.

Mr. Scallan will touch on the Boileybrack grouse project in Leitrim which is a great example of community partnership. In summary, a large number of farmers are interested in rearing livestock while looking after the landscape. Perhaps we could encourage them more. Some people want to separate landscape and wildlife management from farming and food production but historically they were aligned. Let us examine the Department's name in Irish which is An Roinn Talmhaíochta, Bia agus Mara which means its remit is much broader than pure agriculture. In particular areas on the western seaboard and upland areas it is in the wider rural interest that we combine farming with tourism. Farmers have an expertise which we can use in order to be proactive for nature rather than being more passive. If we look to our history and the wider economic argument we will see that such a move would benefit the Irish rural and national exchequers. Let us not let anyone dismiss the role of less intensive or part-time farmers. They may not compete with the production levels of lowland farmers but they still have a crucial role to play. In the past sometimes we have mixed up a dislike of the conservation message but do not let that put one off embracing, upholding and healing nature and the landscape. With regard to the wider upland agri-environment scheme I would ask that mountain farmers be given a renewed sense of pride and incentivised to benefit the green nation and the challenges we face with Harvest 2020.