Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)

I mentioned prostitution because there is an analogy, as the Minister accepts, with the Dillon case. The Opposition tabled an amendment that would have criminalised the purchase of sex when the Human Trafficking Bill or the first version of the Immigration Bill was proceeding through the House. The Minister's predecessor opposed the amendment and while I do not want to misrepresent him as saying it could not be done, he said it should not be done and seemed to believe there were constitutional obstacles in the way. I raise that because people have been in touch with me to ask if the present Minister, Deputy Ahern, meant was he was reported as saying he meant in The Irish Times.

I heard the remarks made by the Minister and by Deputy Ó Snodaigh about organised begging. I do not know what Deputy Ó Snodaigh has in his arsenal to adduce in support of his case but if the Minister was before a judge, he would not have compelling evidence. He started out by saying there is no official evidence before quoting from individual senior gardaí. Both he and Deputy Ó Snodaigh may be right but I do not know enough about this. Is the Roma Gypsy issue cultural or is it organised begging? I agree with the Minister that traffic endangerment is involved, I have personally experienced it, and there is no doubt members of the Roma community congregate and beg. I would like to know, however, and we have a lot of information about immigration these days, if this is cultural or organised.

One cannot help but be struck by the irony that we are legislating for beggars while our laws are inadequate when it comes to dealing with those bankers who beggared the country and its people. The only reason there has not been more progress and that the Director of Corporate Enforcement has not brought the cases to conclusion is because, I suspect, our law is defective.

I do not wish to open a debate with the Minister about the IMF but we are not in the IMF and subject to the rescue package because our fiscal balance is out of kilter. We would have been able to handle fiscal correction. It is the fact that the banks have beggared us on top of that and it is this that has us in the hands of the IMF. There is some irony at this critical juncture in politics that we are legislating to cope with beggars on the street but the bankers, who have beggared the country, seem to be able to transfer their assets to their spouses and seem to be able to escape with impunity. This is what is driving much of the anger in this country.

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